A12 magazine not holding on to the body

naeroscatu · Jul 16, 2013

Hi Folks
I was out shooting with my 500 CM, finished one magazine and loading the second when it simply fell off on the ground. Lucky I was on a lawn and basically nothing hapened. I tried several times to attach the A12 to the body thinking I didn't push the round button all the way to the side. The A12 fell off every time. I have not opened the magazine yet, unfortunately it is loaded with film. Enyone has any idea of what may cause this? Is it time for a CLA or perhaps a I can do this myself? Thank you

StoneNYC · Jul 16, 2013

naeroscatu said:
Hi Folks
I was out shooting with my 500 CM, finished one magazine and loading the second when it simply fell off on the ground. Lucky I was on a lawn and basically nothing hapened. I tried several times to attach the A12 to the body thinking I didn't push the round button all the way to the side. The A12 fell off every time. I have not opened the magazine yet, unfortunately it is loaded with film. Enyone has any idea of what may cause this? Is it time for a CLA or perhaps a I can do this myself? Thank you

I would unload it in a dark bag/darkroom and then investigate the body of the back after...

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 16, 2013

Time for a CLA.

naeroscatu · Jul 16, 2013

Thank you Stone and Thomas. Both suggestions make sense, I will follow.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 16, 2013

Well, the back is supposed to attach without using any force or using the round button. It's supposed to 'snap' gently into place.

Furthermore, the back should not be able to detach when the dark slide is in.

If the back does not snap easily into being securely attached, and it falls off with the darkslide either in or out, then your back OR your camera needs to be serviced. My Hasselblad has started doing this with one of my backs lately, so I assume it's the back since it works well with a different back.
If you have other A12 backs you can try to load and unload and see if a certain back will repeat the problem.

TheFlyingCamera · Jul 16, 2013

Another thing to check (although it's probably the locking mechanism at the top of the back that's the source of the problem) is the little "feet" at the bottom of the body that hook into the slots at the bottom of the film magazine. They can come loose over time, and if so, it's an easy end-user fix that only requires a flat-head screwdriver to tighten up the screws.

naeroscatu · Jul 16, 2013

so I assume it's the back since it works well with a different back.
If you have other A12 backs you can try to load and unload and see if a certain back will repeat the problem.

Thomas, indeed that was the fix on the field - I had two more backs that I was able to attach and use without problems. I also think the problem is with the back.

StoneNYC · Jul 16, 2013

naeroscatu said:
Thomas, indeed that was the fix on the field - I had two more backs that I was able to attach and use without problems. I also think the problem is with the back.

Gaffers tape is your friend

~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

Sirius Glass · Jul 16, 2013

Check the hinges to see if they are bend out of position.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 17, 2013

Sirius Glass said:
Check the hinges to see if they are bend out of position.

If it worked with a different back, what are the odds of that?

But I agree that it's not a bad idea to check...

Mark Feldstein · Jul 17, 2013

A couple of things:
First, look to make sure when you move the mag attachment button on top, that the prongs move on the inside face of the mag where it attaches to the camera.

In the future, try to avoid snapping the mag onto the body rather than moving the attachment button back, attaching the mag and then releasing the button.
As David Odess points out in his FAQ section:

"How can I use my thumb to save my feet?
When you put a magazine on a Hasselblad body, don't "snap" the top of the magazine on to the body. This creates a lot of pressure on the two feet on the bottom of the body, and will eventually cause the feet to bend. Instead, push the button on the top of the magazine over with your thumb before attaching the magazine to the body." http://www.david-odess.com/faq.html#q16

If either of those don't seem to help. As has been suggested, get it CLA'd. Dave charges $95 bucks I think, to go through a mag and restore it if it can be restored. In using his services for years I've found he's worth it and as good as sending it to Hassie for factory service because he used to work for them before setting out on his own.

And if your CM's feet are bent, the last thing I would try to do is straighten them out by myself. If they're not properly aligned and/or if the springs are damaged, you may cause more problems than just sending it to a qualified tech.
Mark

John Koehrer · Jul 17, 2013

There are no moving parts on the back to go out of alignment.
I may be the slots are worn enough to not fully engage the locking prongs.
It's not hard to swap the plates from one back to another if you want to check the back. No there's nothing to pop out and go into the dimension where all the lost socks go. Take care when putting it back together, I don't remember if the light seal for the dark slide is loose or not.

Mark Feldstein · Jul 17, 2013

John Koehrer said:
There are no moving parts on the back to go out of alignment.
I may be the slots are worn enough to not fully engage the locking prongs.

Actually, I beg to differ. At the top of the mag are two slots to engage the camera and latch as you move the thumb button on top. The prongs inside those two slots are spring loaded to clamp to the two hooks on the upper rear of the body to secure the mag to the body.

Also, the gearing slot may be worn and not correctly aligned causing them to not properly engage the camera film advance lever for the mag on the back of the body. I believe there is also a spring on the bottom righth and side of the mag that the body trips to release the mag to allow the film to advance as the body winder is turned. If it gets bent or out of adjustment, the body won't trip the mag release.

And not to be argumentative, but perhaps you can esplain how the slots on the mag or body would be worn so as not to engage the locking prongs (I assume you mean on the top of the rear of the body).

I still think that mag needs a CLA.
M.

John Koehrer · Jul 20, 2013

Mark Feldstein said:
Actually, I beg to differ. At the top of the mag are two slots to engage the camera and latch as you move the thumb button on top. The prongs inside those two slots are spring loaded to clamp to the two hooks on the upper rear of the body to secure the mag to the body.

Also, the gearing slot may be worn and not correctly aligned causing them to not properly engage the camera film advance lever for the mag on the back of the body. I believe there is also a spring on the bottom righth and side of the mag that the body trips to release the mag to allow the film to advance as the body winder is turned. If it gets bent or out of adjustment, the body won't trip the mag release.

And not to be argumentative, but perhaps you can esplain how the slots on the mag or body would be worn so as not to engage the locking prongs (I assume you mean on the top of the rear of the body).

I still think that mag needs a CLA.
M.

Ayup, The hooks are in the magazine, not the back. I stand corrected.
Slots cold be worn through use. Since the works are in in the the mag, probably not.
Following the same logic(illogic?) could the moving prongs be slightly bent inwards?

Mark Feldstein · Jul 21, 2013

I think if the mag gets dropped on a hard surface the impact might be enough to distort some of the metal works inside. I had my 553 ELX on a Gitzo studex that went ass over backwards from a sudden jet blast. It landed squarely on it's A-12 hitting a concrete tarmac. Took the licking and kept on ticking but not for much longer when it jammed. Sent it to the David Odess Memorial Hasselblad Hospital and for $95 bucks, he performed life-saving straightening measures. Yeah. It happens under Murphy's laws I guess.
M.

naeroscatu · Aug 6, 2013

For who is interested my problem has a happy ending. What I noticed when I looked up close is that the screw that holds the plate (close to one of the holes where the hook from the body gets in) was not screwed in all the way. As result the plate was actually bent right above the hole and the hook was not holding well. Due to weight and gravity the back was falling every time. Couple weeks back I changed the light seal on that back and I left that screw half way in. As soon as I screwed in that screw, the problem solved itself and the back is holding well.
We keep learning . Cheers,

cliveh · Aug 6, 2013

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Furthermore, the back should not be able to detach when the dark slide is in.

Don't you mean out?

Thomas Bertilsson · Aug 6, 2013

cliveh said:
Don't you mean out?

Correct.

brucemuir · Aug 6, 2013

Isn't one of those screws longer than the others on some earlier A12s or an I misremembering.
For some reason I think I remember reading a thread that one screw was longer (cant remember the last time I replaced a darkslide foam) but them they discontinued the longer screw and made them all the same??

Anyone?

naeroscatu · Aug 6, 2013

Hi Bruce,
On my backs all the screws holding the plate are the same (9 of them if I remember correctly). I changed the light seals several times and never encountered longer screws. My backs and camera are from approx 1985 or later.

brucemuir · Aug 6, 2013

Yes, indeed there are 9.
I just went a checked my "blackbird" instructions that come with the darkslide seal kits he sells because I thought there was a mention of it there but ...nope. Maybe I'm mixing it up with something else. Seems to be happening more lately since I passed the big Five-O.

Thanks for answering back though.

Sirius Glass · Aug 6, 2013

It is great that you fixed your problem.

A12 magazine not holding on to the body

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