A1 metered manual and variable aperture lenses.

f/16 · May 31, 2015

I tried the A1 with Vivitar 28-85 f/3.5-4.5. In metered manual mode, the f stop display would go to f/3.5 even when zoomed to 85mm which the max aperture is 4.5. Do I need to compensate when zooming or just set the aperture ring to what the display says?

gone · May 31, 2015

Since you can't set it to 3.5 when the lens itself is really only capable of 4.5 at that focal length, it sounds like you need to compensate it one stop.

John Koehrer · May 31, 2015

Personally I think the A1 is awkward to use in Manual unless you're using a separate meter. It's unfortunate there's no simple way to use the camera in manual.
Anyway, when the camera's in TV what reading do you get that way?

f/16 · Jun 1, 2015

John Koehrer said:
Personally I think the A1 is awkward to use in Manual unless you're using a separate meter. It's unfortunate there's no simple way to use the camera in manual.
Anyway, when the camera's in TV what reading do you get that way?

In TV same thing-it starts at f/3.5 regardless of focal length. Yes I agree it's not the best camera to use in manual mode. I like a camera with a - + meter.

Chan Tran · Jun 1, 2015

John Koehrer said:
Personally I think the A1 is awkward to use in Manual unless you're using a separate meter. It's unfortunate there's no simple way to use the camera in manual.
Anyway, when the camera's in TV what reading do you get that way?

Yup John. Canon had problem with lens interfacing so they were smart to abandon the FD mount all together.

cuthbert · Jun 1, 2015

Chan Tran said:
Yup John. Canon had problem with lens interfacing so they were smart to abandon the FD mount all together.

There was no problem with lens interfacing and the FD mount was abandoned because they needed to go autofocus as everybody knows.

f/16 said:
I tried the A1 with Vivitar 28-85 f/3.5-4.5. In metered manual mode, the f stop display would go to f/3.5 even when zoomed to 85mm which the max aperture is 4.5. Do I need to compensate when zooming or just set the aperture ring to what the display says?

That's a problem I noticed with my Canon FD 35-105 f3.5-4.5 (the one touch with aspherical element) too, it appears the A-1 has a sort of AE lock incorporated, my friend Cooltouch knows more about it, but for instance if I use the same zoom with my Canon F-1 in aperture priority and I zoom in from 35 mm to 105 mm the shutter time goes rightly down a little, so the F-1 "sees" the change in F stop.

I don't know if the difference is enough to spoil a picture, my suggestion is always shoot a test exposure, one zooming and the other depressing the shutter release once more when you finished to zoom in to check if the program has changed aperture and shutter time.

However, you've been warned the A-1 behaved in such a way, in reality the camera you wanted was this one:

But you didn't listen.

flavio81 · Jun 1, 2015

When you have a variable aperture zoom, like for example the fine, underrated 35-70/3.5-4.5 lens, when you are at 35mm the lens is a f3.5 lens and when going to 70mm the lens is a f4.5 lens. Since metering is through the lens (TTL), the amount of light that the meter will sense at 70mm is less than with the lens at 35mm. Thus, you simply use the aperture that the meter indicates, with no correction; as if the lens was at 35mm.

This explains what cuthbert experienced.

BTW I claim that Canon is the best manufacturer of zoom lenses of all the japanese brands at that era. Some of their zooms are second to none, like the 35-105/3.5 or even the 35-70/4.0 which was ranked by a german magazine in 1979 or 1980 above similar lenses by Angenieux and Leitz, and of course Vivitar and Nikon; not to mention Pentax and Minolta. And the Canon was one of the cheapest ones on the list (!)

Canon invented the modern two-group standard-zoom configuration which then Nikon directly copied years later, in the seventies. Very possibly there were many optical engineers at Nikon with nightmares and perpetuous headache after the Canon FD 35-70/2.8-3.5 was introduced. That lens was groundbreaking, a milestone in optics. It took Nikon years to do release their "copy" (ha!!).

Marco Cavina's website explains this with solid proof.

For zoom lenses, Canon is the king. Accept no substitutes. Canon is where you want to be. Don't go for the brand with those focus rings that rotate in the wrong direction and lenses that mount in the wrong direction too. Go Canon FD, which stands for "Faithful Depiction", "Fairly Decent", "Free from Defects", or "Fair Dinkum".

Bill Burk · Jun 1, 2015

Mine were all Fungus Destroyed...

Bill Burk · Jun 1, 2015

But, keeping it positive...

I used the A-1 at the beach, hills and bluffs last week and didn't have to worry about a thing. If I'd brought a more important camera, the blowing sand and sea spray would have had me worried. As it was, I just kept my concerns on where I placed my feet... And kept the camera pointing at the sun...

Now that made metering a challenge, but everyone knows that.

dynachrome · Jun 1, 2015

I agree that the A-1 is not convenient to use in manual mode but I find it inconvenient to use altogether so I don't use mine that often. How can you tell if a camera is sensing the smaller effective aperture at the long end when zooming? Just look at the needle or LEDs. If you are looking at a large enough even tone you should see the meter react. With slower zoom lenses I prefer to use a body with a grid type screen like an F-1. The A-1 is listed as having factory interchangeable screens while the AE-1 Program is listed as having user interchangeable screens.

wiltw · Jun 2, 2015

As I do not own an A-1, let me ask why there is any issue at all, that the camera does not indicate f/4.5 even when the lens does not support that f/stop? The way I see it...

If at f/3.5 28mm the manual mode exposure meter indicates 1/250 is the appropriate shutter speed...
Then at f/4.5 85mm, the manual mode exposure meter should see -0.66EV less light thru the lens, so it should indicate the appropriate shutter speed as 1/160. But if the camera does not support shutter speeds in 1/3EV increments, it will indicate 1/180 instead as the appropriate shutter speed.
Even though the lens is a true f/4.5 at 85mm, in manual mode if the camera THINKS that f/3.5 is the max aperture set on the lens, it really does NOT MATTER simply because the amount of light passed to the meter is reduced (see point #2) Whether the camera THINKS that f/3.5 is set or f/4.5 is set on the lens at 85mm , the amount of light hitting the exposure meter is -0.66EV less in both cases, so 1/180 would be the appropriate shutter speed recommended by the TTL meter.

The camera does not record the f/stop like digital cameras do today in EXIF, so the fact that the camera is fooled about the true aperture of the lens at 85mm is never captured in error. The the TTL meter suggests the right shutter speed even if it knows the wrong aperture value, as indicated in the viewfinder.

Can someone explain to me why the Canon A-1 is perceived as 'deficient' in this regard? Just trying to understand.

Bill Burk · Jun 2, 2015

When I got my A-1 the lens mount was loose and an f/1.8 lens would "indicate" manual exposure recommendation for f/1.4... which the lens could not do.

The issue here is about the same I think.

wombat2go · Jun 2, 2015

Certainly a nice old camera and well built , but it looks like the A-1 was designed by a committee, with a hodge-podge of 21 controls and indicators all over the thing and a 100 page manual!
The Manual over-ride described on Page 65 is full of "if and but", concluded by "You must rely on your own experience for setting the exposure"

On page 37 of the manual is an AE explanation that the user can wind down the aperture setting of the AT dial, to wider settings than the lens is capable of.
However (of course) the natural aperture of the lens will prevail, and the shutter speed will be set accordingly by the meter at the lens widest, and the same, even if the user sets wider.

I did not see mention of the zoom effect on aperture, but I think it follows from the above, that the correct way to use a f/3.5 to f/4.5 zoom at widest possible in AE, would be to simply set f/3.5 or below, and the shutter will be set according to the light meter as the zoom is varied, and the lens will not stop down during exposure.

Edit. I just took the A1 with an FD Koboron1:3.5~4.5 f=28_105mm outside.
This combo exposes C41 iso 800 nicely.

Set iso 12. Pointed to cloudless blue sky away from sun.

Set AE at 3.5, the shutter varied from 125 (28 mm) to 90 (105mm)
Set AE at 4.5, the shutter varied from 60 (28 mm) to 45 (105mm)

benjiboy · Jun 2, 2015

If you need an FD camera that works well in the manual mode I suggest buy a FTb or an F1, the A1 was designed primarily an automatic camera.
P.S I find that variable aperture zooms work best with the A1 in the automatic modes, where they are a real pain in the ass is with hand held light meters or flash because the transition from one aperture at the short end of the zoom and another the long end of it is gradual and progressive between them.

cuthbert · Jun 2, 2015

wombat2go said:
Set iso 12. Pointed to cloudless blue sky away from sun.

Set AE at 3.5, the shutter varied from 125 (28 mm) to 90 (105mm)
Set AE at 4.5, the shutter varied from 60 (28 mm) to 45 (105mm)

Yes but does yours change the shutter speed when you zoom? It should do it, or at least this is what my F-1N in AE does, a well as my Praktica and my Fuji AX5.

wombat2go · Jun 2, 2015

cuthbert said:
Yes but does yours change the shutter speed when you zoom? It should do it, or at least this is what my F-1N in AE does, a well as my Praktica and my Fuji AX5.

Yes, that is what I meant to show with the test of the A1 with the zoom. It shows exactly that the shutter speed did change with zoom focal length.
How can I could put that shutter change when I zoomed more clearly for you?

cuthbert · Jun 3, 2015

wombat2go said:
Yes, that is what I meant to show with the test of the A1 with the zoom. It shows exactly that the shutter speed did change with zoom focal length.
How can I could put that shutter change when I zoomed more clearly for you?

What kindness and class! I'm overhelmed!

A pity the OP says otherwise and I also experienced the same thing with my T90, that is with a non constant zoom the aperture is always reported constant (for instance f3.5) even when you zoom at 105mm while it should drop to f4.5.

ronnies · Jun 3, 2015

cuthbert said:
What kindness and class! I'm overhelmed!

A pity the OP says otherwise and I also experienced the same thing with my T90, that is with a non constant zoom the aperture is always reported constant (for instance f3.5) even when you zoom at 105mm while it should drop to f4.5.

That will be because the maximum aperture indicator pin on the lens tells the camera it's f/3.5 and doesn't move as you zoom. Since the indicated speed does change as you zoom the camera seems to be getting the exposure right so no problem for AE modes. The problem you do have is that in manual the indicated aperture in the viewfinder for the set shutter speed may not be correct depending on how the aperture ring on the lens works.

Ronnie

cuthbert · Jun 3, 2015

Ronnie perhaps I didn't make myself clear: the T90 doesn't change shutter speed when I zoom from 35 mm to 105mm, the F1 does it tough.

Then we can discuss if this difference is relevant for the correct exposure or not, but in my case shutter and aperture remain constant in AE aperture priority.

ronnies · Jun 3, 2015

cuthbert said:
Ronnie perhaps I didn't make myself clear: the T90 doesn't change shutter speed when I zoom from 35 mm to 105mm, the F1 does it tough.

Then we can discuss if this difference is relevant for the correct exposure or not, but in my case shutter and aperture remain constant in AE aperture priority.

Apologies, I'd misunderstood.

Ronnie

wombat2go · Jun 3, 2015

cuthbert said:
What kindness and class! I'm overhelmed!

A pity the OP says otherwise and I also experienced the same thing with my T90, that is with a non constant zoom the aperture is always reported constant (for instance f3.5) even when you zoom at 105mm while it should drop to f4.5.

Cuthbert, please look at your post 15, your "Yes but.." had me puzzled and at a loss to reply, sorry.

Moving on:
I also have a Canon Zoom Lens FD 35~105mm 1:3.5 here that I have never used.
Note it is a constant aperture zoom.
So I put that one on the A1 set to AE at f/3.5 on the dial and pointed it a the blues sky away from the sun.
With that lens the shutter does not vary when zooming to different focal lengths, as we would expect.

flavio81 · Jun 3, 2015

wombat2go said:
Certainly a nice old camera and well built , but it looks like the A-1 was designed by a committee, with a hodge-podge of 21 controls and indicators all over the thing and a 100 page manual!

Well, to each its own. I find the A-1 one of the cameras with the best placement of controls i've ever had, and very easy to use once you read the manual, which I found pretty easy to read, comprehensive, and one of the best well-written manuals i've read. For example the section on exposure compensation is great. Better than most Nikon manuals of the era. Well done Canon!!

cuthbert · Jun 3, 2015

wombat2go said:
Moving on:
I also have a Canon Zoom Lens FD 35~105mm 1:3.5 here that I have never used.
Note it is a constant aperture zoom.
So I put that one on the A1 set to AE at f/3.5 on the dial and pointed it a the blues sky away from the sun.
With that lens the shutter does not vary when zooming to different focal lengths, as we would expect.

Yes but they are two different zooms:

Dead Link Removed

At the left yours and the right mine.

dynachrome · Jun 3, 2015

I have both of these lenses. Actually I have one f/3.5 and two of the f/3.5-4.5 models. I don't really like the f/3.5. Its sharp enough but is not useful at the 105 end for portraits. In its normal mode it doesn't get close enough and in its macro mode it gets too close. The f/3.5-4.5 works well for portraits at the 105 end and is quite sharp as well as being smaller and lighter. My only complaint is that it is difficult to use in flare prone situations.

wombat2go · Jun 4, 2015

Here is the A1 with its set of lenses and accessories.
It is certainly top quality equipment and is all in good condition.
A future project will be to try to get the drive charged and working.

The set was given to me by a retired Detroit auto designer (from the clay times) who spent a lot of time in Japan.
Hence the 100 Volt charger.

Although I am mainly manual K-mount collector,
I have enjoyed learning about the A1 and it still takes good photos although I have not used it much.

A1 metered manual and variable aperture lenses.

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