A very disturbing conversation...

Michael R 1974 said:

I'm quite confident both you and Mr. Rattymouse could be easily fooled.

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Fooled about what?

Sorry you can`t learn

Ronald Moravec said:

Sorry you can`t learn

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LOL. You never know who you talking to on the net.
I was involved with computer graphics at very beginning of nineties. By the same time I was witnessing how production and broadcast went digital. I supplied, installed and supported computer graphic systems for big and small companies, including film studios. I'm still in digital image processing industry. I'm so old in digital image processing I remember original company for After Effects. I was invited to go skiing by one of CEO of Discreet a Logic. Just because we knew each other long enough before Discreet.
If you and this 1974 kid believes what digital looks like film you can't learn.
I'm on A.P.U.G. because I have seen enough digital, but what a hell you are doing here...

Let's try to keep things civil here guys. Now the recent consumer electronics show has offered another possibility for getting our films developed. You may have heard how Kodak has re-released what was pretty much a dead format (super8). They're producing the film and the price of it includes development and scanning. My thoughts are potentially they may do the same thing with their photographic film and since they have a vested interest as it supports their film and chemical business, it's not a stretch to think this may become how film gets processed in the future with a slowly shrinking market. It may drive the price up, but that's generally accepted as a consequence of using a niche product.

Being able to tell digital from film is an interesting question.

For example if one scans a film image from any source neg or positive at high resolution, then prints the image on a high quality digital print process. Then the exact size print is made from the original film or positive using an all analog process.

Do any of us think they could tell the difference between prints? and decisively say which one was done by what method-even if I am talking very large prints.
:munch:

Ko.Fe. said:

LOL. You never know who you talking to on the net.
I was involved with computer graphics at very beginning of nineties. By the same time I was witnessing how production and broadcast went digital. I supplied, installed and supported computer graphic systems for big and small companies, including film studios. I'm still in digital image processing industry. I'm so old in digital image processing I remember original company for After Effects. I was invited to go skiing by one of CEO of Discreet a Logic. Just because we knew each other long enough before Discreet.
If you and this 1974 kid believes what digital looks like film you can't learn.
I'm on A.P.U.G. because I have seen enough digital, but what a hell you are doing here...

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I am going to be interested in some of the answers to the question I pose, I have a very strong opinion on this but do not want to muddy the question until some chime in here.

This is a good moment in time to ask a bunch of questions that if treated with respect we could find out a lot of answers .

I will put some thought and maybe start another thread with a bunch of statements or questions and see how this group can discuss.

Bob Carnie said:

Being able to tell digital from film is an interesting question.

For example if one scans a film image from any source neg or positive at high resolution, then prints the image on a high quality digital print process. Then the exact size print is made from the original film or positive using an all analog process.

Do any of us think they could tell the difference between prints? and decisively say which one was done by what method-even if I am talking very large prints.
:munch:

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No difference, prints or screen. I could see if print is analog, digital image on printer and scan on printer print. But enormous sized prints are same crap.
On screen I could see most often if digital (bw, color) or film (bw, color) already on preview size, don't need to open image full size for it. Same as I often could see on image icon if it is 135, MF and LF without looking at larger size.

Those "digital" guys lost me here at very beginning, with assumption what adjusting of curves in PS will make it as film. It is common and very primitive believe among pro-digital crowd. They just can't see the difference as some of us are capable to see.

Cheers, Ko.

Digital and film are certainly different photographic mediums.

I honestly believe there is a place for both, but I quit trying to make digital look like film, or vice versa.

Once you really begin to accept and understand the strengths and weaknesses in each medium then your photographs look better.

And you are lot happier.

I had a lab for many years and used Noritsu gear- very good analogue equipment. I sold the business 15 years ago, retired and then went back to work part-time printing with a Noritsu digital lab. The green section of the RGB scanner went south. It was going to cost 40 grand for a new one. As the film printing business was dying, they shut the lab down in 2010.

I then was hired to sort out C41 processor and printer for another outfit. I kept that limping along for a few years, but it was a struggle.
Those machines were built for volume processing and are very difficult to keep chemistry in balance with declining roll counts. Eventually the film processor broke bad and parts were insanely expensive.

That lab closed too. Sad, but that is reality.

Even though there's a full service commercial lab not far away that still does big optical enlargements, along with full digital printing services, I don't need that. I have my own digs for printing. Where I farm things out is for just simple automated C41 and E6 film development, which is something a machine can do. So I take my film to a lab even closer. It actually specializes in scanning and digital printing; but even so, 50% of their business involves black and white film development, and the option of either digital or chemical black and white prints. They even sell film. They also do C41 in house up to 120, then farm out the sheet film to the bigger lab down the road. What was interesting to note there yesterday is that they had a big incoming stack of Mitsubishi photosensitive roll paper. I'm not familiar with their products, but given what this lab does, I'll assume it is black and white paper. Interesting to see Mitsubishi back in the game here. But then there's yet another small specialty lab just two doors away, which does big Lambda inkjets prints. That's all just within walking distance of my office. A five minute drive away, and there is a big rental darkroom which offers classes, and even has an 8x10
enlarger. Sorry if other parts of the country only offer soggy pancakes for breakfast, and watered-down coffee, and have forgotten what a
real camera looks like.

These C-41 labs that go under are treasure troves for flexicolor fixer. I hit up a lab for two five gallon bladders (free), this was about 8 years ago and just recently had to buy new fixer from formulary. 8 years of free fixer. They were actually happy to have me haul it away, saved a them a trip to the chem disposal.