A terminology issue: "Ferrotyping"

AgX · Feb 24, 2016

So far I thought ferrotyping (aside of that direct-positive process) would always refer to drying on a heat-press with the emulsion facing the polished side aimed at yielding high gloss.

But:

-) my photographic dictionary does not list that term at all

-) the Focal Encyclopedia describes it as gloss drying on a cold, polished surface

-) Ilfords Manual does not list that term, but calls drying on a cold polished surface: glazing, on a hot polished surface: hot glazing

-) the same for Clerc, but here a reference is made to ferrotype plates used as polished surface

However, here at Apug, US dominated, I find the term ferrotyping used for both cold and hot glazing on a polished surface.

Ian Grant · Feb 24, 2016

It's not a very precise term which is why it's not used much, it can has been used for hot & cold glazing with a highly polished metal plate.

Ian

Bill Burk · Feb 24, 2016

I recently read about steps to ferrotype in "The practical way to Perfect Enlargements" by Joseph Foldes, New York 1954.

There I was surprised to find that heat is not necessary.

A chrome plated brass ferrotype plate is recommended. Rinse the plate and leave it wet. Place the wet print taken right out of the wash, face down on the plate.

Cover with 3 layers of newspaper and roll over it lightly with a roller squeegee. After that go over it again with the roller squeegee applying hard pressure.

Remove the newspaper.

Then... "If you have a dryer" put the plate with the prints into it.

If you have no dryer just let the ferrotype plate stand undisturbed until the prints peel off by themselves.

ic-racer · Feb 24, 2016

How I remember the smell of hot Pakosol on damp burlap...

bsdunek · Feb 24, 2016

Still have my Dad's ferrotype plates in my darkroom. He never used heat. Just put the wet print on the wet plate, put paper over it, and rolled out all the air. Removed the paper and left to dry. When dry, the prints would come off themselves. He did wax the plates with Simonize from time to time.

AgX · Feb 24, 2016

Bill Burk said:
I recently read about steps to ferrotype in "The practical way to Perfect Enlargements" by Joseph Foldes, New York 1954.
There I was surprised to find that heat is not necessary.

If you as a native speaker are surprised, imagine the trouble I myself am in switching between at least three languages plus some regional pecularities...

Bill Burk · Feb 24, 2016

AgX said:
If you as a native speaker are surprised, imagine the trouble I myself am in switching between at least three languages plus some regional pecularities...

I never could learn to speak German effectively even though I took two years of it in school, because my stepfather spoke low German and they were teaching high German.

I remember clearly though, my German teacher said that Contax was a good camera.

RobC · Feb 24, 2016

AgX said:
So far I thought ferrotyping (aside of that direct-positive process) would always refer to drying on a heat-press with the emulsion facing the polished side aimed at yielding high gloss.

But:

-) my photographic dictionary does not list that term at all

-) the Focal Encyclopedia describes it as gloss drying on a cold, polished surface

-) Ilfords Manual does not list that term, but calls drying on a cold polished surface: glazing, on a hot polished surface: hot glazing

-) the same for Clerc, but here a reference is made to ferrotype plates used as polished surface

However, here at Apug, US dominated, I find the term ferrotyping used for both cold and hot glazing on a polished surface.

You think you have problems,
Did you know that studies of the Sami languages of Norway, Sweden and Finland, conclude that the languages have anywhere from 180 snow- and ice-related words and as many as 300 different words for types of snow, tracks in snow, and conditions of the use of snow.

AgX · Feb 24, 2016

But that is a different situation. You talk about a situation where people are brought up in a community with such word-variety.

In this case however it is about a rather mixed community from all over the world copying with one professional jargon, phototechnical English.
Moreover its in some respects outdated sectors...

Sirius Glass · Feb 24, 2016

Heat is not added for ferrotyping. It is a cold process.

RobC · Feb 24, 2016

maybe its just because I've seen the use of ferrotyping and glazing used interchangeably for so long that they mean the same to me as far as putting a high gloss on FB paper is concerned. I guess anyone new to it needs a bit of clarification.

For anyone thinking of trying glazing as I like to call it, you will find that you ruin a lot of prints when you start out. I gave up because after all the work put into printing and maybe toning a print, I didn't want to ruin it. I guess some people master it but the slightest bit of air or water between the print and glazing sheet will ruin your print irretrievably so be warned. Notice in the video how scrupulously clean he made big efforts to achieve before using it. The slightest bit of gelatin or dirt or water mineral deposit left from the last usage will ruin your print. Besides, if I want high gloss like RC paper then I'd use RC paper which is cheaper and easier to handle. It might not tone as well but then I rarely tone after printing.

AgX · Feb 24, 2016

Rob, I assume you refer to "hot glazing"...

RobC · Feb 24, 2016

AgX said:
Rob, I assume you refer to "hot glazing"...

I refer to using a print dryer with a glazing sheet like the one in the video.

Some print dryers, especially infra red heat dryers can put a significant gloss onto a FB print. Not suggesting you put a fully wet print into one of those though, maybe 3/4 dry. The hot air ones less so. I also expect the drum dryers such as the Arkay units will put a fair amount of high gloss onto FB prints but I never used one.

Gerald C Koch · Feb 24, 2016

I think the confusion has to do with use. A ferrotype is a type of silver-gelatin print made on enameled metal rather than paper. Notice that the word is a noun. Ferrotyping, a verb, is the process of flattening a FB print. I personally have never heard one word used for the other. One would never speak of ferrotyping a ferrotype.

BTW the tool used in ferrotyping is a brayer. An OE word meaning to break up clumps. Used in the graphic arts for applying ink.

AgX · Feb 24, 2016

This not about mixing up ferrotype (or ferrotyping as for making ferrotypes) with ferrotyping as for glazing.

But about ferrotyping used for both cold and hot glazing.

RobC · Feb 24, 2016

It's no wonder the OP couldn't find either in his photographic dictionary.

AgX · Feb 24, 2016

My photographic dictionary says "glazing" (without reference to temperature) and for the respective hot apparatus "print glazer".

nworth · Feb 24, 2016

The OP has it right.

The term is usually used for a process to make high gloss prints by drying glossy paper against a highly polished surface. The surface was usually chromium plated steel, but other materials were also used. Heat might or might not be used. The process was remarkably tricky. Contact with the surface had to be even and complete, and water had to be fully squeezed out. That is hard to do by hand. The best results were from the large, motorized, heated drums.

The other use for the term is an obscure iron based alternative photographic process dating from the 19th century.

There may also be other uses of the term.

Fraunhofer · Feb 24, 2016

I believe that ferroptying is American English and glazing is British English. And yes, it is a finicky process, but you can redo it, just soak the print for an hour or so in water and repeat the process, especially smaller imperfections can be resolved like that.

Xmas · Feb 24, 2016

U

Fraunhofer said:
I believe that ferroptying is American English and glazing is British English. And yes, it is a finicky process, but you can redo it, just soak the print for an hour or so in water and repeat the process, especially smaller imperfections can be resolved like that.

Confirmed you can use any surface for 'glossy' paper eg plate glass or float glass or normal window but they do have to be really clean.
And they don't need heat just 12 hours.
You 'Ferried' but that was the iron process.
And I lived on a different island and the local spoken English was unintelligible to most English speaking persons.

Sirius Glass · Feb 24, 2016

Much of the spoken English spoke in England is unintelligible to most English speaking persons.

Arklatexian · Feb 25, 2016

AgX said:
So far I thought ferrotyping (aside of that direct-positive process) would always refer to drying on a heat-press with the emulsion facing the polished side aimed at yielding high gloss.

But:

-) my photographic dictionary does not list that term at all

-) the Focal Encyclopedia describes it as gloss drying on a cold, polished surface

-) Ilfords Manual does not list that term, but calls drying on a cold polished surface: glazing, on a hot polished surface: hot glazing

-) the same for Clerc, but here a reference is made to ferrotype plates used as polished surface

However, here at Apug, US dominated, I find the term ferrotyping used for both cold and hot glazing on a polished surface.

Ilford, an English Company, is using the English term:"glazing" which meant/means the same thing as "ferrotyping" in the USA and possibly other places. At least that is what my old darkroom books used to say.......Regards!

Arklatexian · Feb 25, 2016

oldtimermetoo said:
Ilford, an English Company, is using the English term:"glazing" which meant/means the same thing as "ferrotyping" in the USA and possibly other places. At least that is what my old darkroom books used to say.......Regards!

(add) In the 1930s, 40s, etc. most of the ferrotype plates were steel (ferro), some coated with wax mixed with gasoline and allowed to dry before using. Later, they were highly polished brass and the last ones that I bought were highly polished stainless steel. No wax was really needed on these. In the late 40s and early 50s, electricalkly heated "flip" dryers with a ferrotype plate on each side were sold......Regards (again)!

Sirius Glass · Feb 25, 2016

oldtimermetoo said:
Ilford, an English Company, is using the English term:"glazing" which meant/means the same thing as "ferrotyping" in the USA and possibly other places. At least that is what my old darkroom books used to say.......Regards!

In the US glazing refers to installing or replacing glass window panes.

RobC · Feb 25, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
In the US glazing refers to installing or replacing glass window panes.

I thought it was something to do with taking over football clubs ( that's soccer to you).

A terminology issue: "Ferrotyping"

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