A Small Rant on Popular Opinion, Fact, and Film

BrianPhotog · Dec 27, 2008

Another APUG'er came across a recent post I'd made in my blog and suggested that I share it here.

It's of a recent experience I had with a rather dull shop owner and the idea that popular opinion trumps truth, even when that truth is staring you right in the face.

Dead Link Removed

rpsawin · Dec 27, 2008

Wow...its like a Monthy Python skit. The bright side is you now know where to go if you intend to not buy film.

Best,

Bob

BrianPhotog · Dec 27, 2008

rpsawin said:
Wow...its like a Monthy Python skit. The bright side is you now know where to go if you intend to not buy film.

Best,

Bob

Yeah it is, isn't it?

I'm still feeling a little dumb from the experience.

schwefel · Dec 27, 2008

Logic escapes people and common sense is anything but.

My guess is that the proprieter does this on purpose. To those that come in for film, when he is out, he uses the "lack of film" as a selling point for the digital. "Why should you waste you time looking for film that no one has (see, we are out)? Here, see this? This is the Latest <MFG> [P&S|DSLR] that has X MP. You will be able to take so.... blah blah blah.

I am certain his margins are digitals are huge. I know his margins on accessories (esp flash mem) as huge as well.

Has it not gotten to the poin where the people who are still shooting film shotting it because they WANT to?

<side note>
Damn near every time I go through security, the TSA "officers" always comment on my camera and such. Most a along the lines of "I have not seen one of those in years", "I used to have one of those". By far the most friendly they have ever been.

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 27, 2008

Goodness! That's quite something. The stupidity of some people is just amazing. The problem with these stupid people is that usually they breed before they vanish.

- Thomas

schwefel · Dec 27, 2008

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Goodness! That's quite something. The stupidity of some people is just amazing. The problem with these stupid people is that usually they breed before they vanish.

- Thomas

Me thinks we need some chlorine in the gene pool

BrianPhotog · Dec 28, 2008

schwefel said:
<side note>
Damn near every time I go through security, the TSA "officers" always comment on my camera and such. Most a along the lines of "I have not seen one of those in years", "I used to have one of those". By far the most friendly they have ever been.

Last time I flew from Taipei to LA on a family visit I brought my CG. The TSA officers comments were along the lines of "Wow! Isn't that the kind of camera they used in 'Flags of Our Fathers'?

Frank Szabo · Dec 28, 2008

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Goodness! That's quite something. The stupidity of some people is just amazing. The problem with these stupid people is that usually they breed before they vanish.

- Thomas

Sometimes, I feel it's a crying shame the laws protect the cretins also.

nsouto · Dec 28, 2008

Everytime I see or hear the "no one uses film anymore" nonsense and demented rubbish, I'm reminded these same people vote and they are counted the same as everyone else....
While it remains so, society can never be perfect!

Seriously though: the other side of the coin is when you see some "exclusively digital" stores start to sell film related gear. Like Ted's started to do recently, here in Sydney, Australia.

I reckon it finally downed on them that selling 20 or 30 bucks worth of film stuff per month to a film addict like me is immensely easier and beats the crap out of trying to sell a Ricoh p&s digital camera to everyone who walks in the store, repeatedly.

Apparently, somewhere down the line someone forgot to tell these folks about "repeat business". You don't get repeat business with the p&s digital crowd, period.

You do get it with the dslr mob, but not very many amateurs can afford to replace their dslr every 18 months and "pros" who can, are a LOT thinner on the ground...

I love simple economics: it has this knack of exposing marketing bull, every single time!

Nick Zentena · Dec 28, 2008

Digital camera shops are a bit of a strange thing. Around here even the grocery stores sell cameras. SLR included. If you're a gear head you likely buy online. If you aren't you pick up what is being pushed at the easiest outlet.

Removed Account · Dec 28, 2008

schwefel said:
I am certain his margins are digitals are huge. I know his margins on accessories (esp flash mem) as huge as well.

Actually, the margins on digital cameras are extremely small since the big box stores (Best Buy, Futureshop, Wal-Mart etc...) all play in the digicam arena now. At the store I work at we often sell cameras at, or close to, our cost. All the real money is made on selling accessories for the cameras. The margins are so bad that we rarely can get an employee discount on digicams, except when the company can work out a deal with the manufacturer or distributor. I was asking someone earlier why companies pushed digital so hard when there was a bloody fortune being made with decent markup on cameras, excellent markup on film and accessories, and ridiculous markup on prints. They didn't have an answer.

rossawilson1 · Dec 28, 2008

Margins on competitively priced dslr cameras are tiny, there's so much competition. I used to work in Jessops and you never got a pat on the back for selling a dslr on it's own.. batteries, cases all the other crap that goes with them, that's where the profit is.

That said, whilst I don't know for sure, there's probably a rebate on turnover; even if there isn't though, it's better your low prices get customers in providing you with a chance to sell more accessories. Jessops is a little dearer but then they trade off people like my parents who think: "camera, camera shop, Jessops, no way am I buying online!"

I agree that guy in the article was probably angling to sell a digital camera in the wake of having no film, that probably works on some people, specially if they just need a little push.. then again I'd wager anyone buying a 100' roll of film isn't going to be bemused and sold into buying a digital camera.

EDIT: sorry only just realised I repeated what Justin Silber said.

2F/2F · Dec 28, 2008

Screw 'em and order from Freestyle. They need all the help they can get in this day and age. Better that all the money we spend on film goes to one place that does not need to be convinced of anything, rather than be spread around to various small shops who could not care less about film users.

BrianPhotog · Dec 28, 2008

2F/2F said:
Screw 'em and order from Freestyle. They need all the help they can get in this day and age. Better that all the money we spend on film goes to one place that does not need to be convinced of anything, rather than be spread around to various small shops who could not care less about film users.

Freestyle doesn't ship overseas (unless you are in the military) and I'm not going to bug my family to go into downtown and get something for me.

However, when I'm back in the LA area visiting them this April I will make sure to stop by.

nickandre · Dec 28, 2008

I will cherish the paper statistic for environmental science.

mikebarger · Dec 28, 2008

I guess I don't see why anyone would be upset with an individual that has invested his money in a shop and runs it the way he wants to. This doesn't look like to big of a deal.

If you don't think his business plan is right for the location, start your own shop or by the HP5 next door.

Mike

Shelley-Ann · Dec 28, 2008

Regardless of the man's business plan, what he said to the original poster doesn't make any sense.

Don't get mad/frustrated -shop elsewhere.

mikebarger · Dec 28, 2008

Still his shop, and if he wants to promote digital, in whatever manner, it's his business.

Nobody said he was smart.

Mike

removed account4 · Dec 28, 2008

actually it makes a lot of sense what the guy said.
he doesn't want to hang onto stock and maybe not sell it to
the few people who might buy it, seening that those few people are becoming fewer and fewer.

maybe all his film customers are buying online,
so the way he sees it is that no one is using these products ..
so yes it is true ... compared to years ago no one is buying film anymore (at least from his store).

like the pro-store near me ... they sells very little film compared to a few years ago.
a lot of what i would buy would be a special order ... so now i buy a lot online, like a lot of others ... they could say the same thing ...

... go to a different store that has a lot of stock or order from freestyle,
have them ship it to your parents who will in turn ship it to you ...

money talks, people listen --- shop somewhere else.

Shelley-Ann · Dec 28, 2008

mikebarger said:
Still his shop, and if he wants to promote digital, in whatever manner, it's his business.

Nobody said he was smart.

Mike

It may be his shop, but its still the OP's money.

mikebarger · Dec 28, 2008

If you had read my earlier post, I advised him to open a shop or buy from the HP5 shop.

We're not in disagreement.

Mike

David Brown · Dec 28, 2008

2F/2F said:
Better that all the money we spend on film goes to one place that does not need to be convinced of anything, rather than be spread around to various small shops who could not care less about film users.

I have to cautiously disagree on one level. I don't advocate supporting "small shops" who don't carry film, but I would advocate supporting more than one on-line source for analog products. Otherwise, we could have another J&C down the road ...

PS: not bashing Freestyle - just got a big order from them!

rwyoung · Dec 28, 2008

BrianPhotog said:
Freestyle doesn't ship overseas (unless you are in the military) and I'm not going to bug my family to go into downtown and get something for me.

However, when I'm back in the LA area visiting them this April I will make sure to stop by.

Since when? They still list Fedex International and USPS International Priority mail in their Order Policies... :confused:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/c_pol.php#pmi

But as with all stuff shipping out of the USA and into other countries, VAT, taxes and any other greasing of the wheels to get your package is the responsibility of the receiver. :rolleyes:

wogster · Dec 28, 2008

nsouto said:
Everytime I see or hear the "no one uses film anymore" nonsense and demented rubbish, I'm reminded these same people vote and they are counted the same as everyone else....
While it remains so, society can never be perfect!

Seriously though: the other side of the coin is when you see some "exclusively digital" stores start to sell film related gear. Like Ted's started to do recently, here in Sydney, Australia.

I reckon it finally downed on them that selling 20 or 30 bucks worth of film stuff per month to a film addict like me is immensely easier and beats the crap out of trying to sell a Ricoh p&s digital camera to everyone who walks in the store, repeatedly.

Apparently, somewhere down the line someone forgot to tell these folks about "repeat business". You don't get repeat business with the p&s digital crowd, period.

You do get it with the dslr mob, but not very many amateurs can afford to replace their dslr every 18 months and "pros" who can, are a LOT thinner on the ground...

I love simple economics: it has this knack of exposing marketing bull, every single time!

This is one of the big problems for digital, once you have a digital camera, you really don't need to buy much at the photo place. Sure some people replace their camera when the new model comes out, but there are probably a lot of people like me too, I've had my DSLR for 3 years, as long as it does what I want it to, there is no real reason to replace it. I used the same argument 25 years ago, with my film camera, which still does what I want it to, so I still use it.

I am sure there are a lot more people like me, then there are who will toss a perfectly good camera, because there is a newer model out. Actually I bought my DSLR used because I got a good deal on it, because someone was upgrading from the 6MP model to the 8MP model, after 18 months. This means that the market will become saturated much quicker then the 35mm market did.

Film users are always buying film, paper, chemistries, and almost all need to be purchased at the photo shop. Digital users on the other hand can buy their photo paper, ink and CD-Rs from the office supply store, where it's often cheaper.

Alexander Ghaffari · Dec 28, 2008

Oh man, funny article. The store owner sounded like a closet Communist..."You have no need for your consumer desires, and supply and demand does not exist...you will listen to what I tell you as an official of the State...you are not an artist...did the State name you an artist?...what, you named yourself an artist?...haha, only the State decides what you are and what you are not."

Jeeze...some people.

A Small Rant on Popular Opinion, Fact, and Film

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