A slightly different twist to the film storage question

mgb74 · Jul 6, 2018

We'll be gone for about 5 months over the winter and expect to be storing film during that time. But I don't want to leave my refrigerator/freezer running - far too wasteful.

I'm thinking of putting it in a cooler and leaving it in the garage. I'm in Minnesota, so I'm not worried about it getting hot. Worst case it will be like a slightly warm refrigerator and best case like the freezer. But I am concerned about freeze/thaw cycles. I could put a jug of water in there to moderate the temperature changes.

Alternatively, I could keep it in the basement - more or less a constant 60 deg F while we're gone.

Suggestions?

MattKing · Jul 6, 2018

A reasonably constant 60 degree F is an excellent environment to store film. How humid is it there?

mgb74 · Jul 6, 2018

MattKing said:
A reasonably constant 60 degree F is an excellent environment to store film. How humid is it there?

In the winter, not very humid at all.

MattKing · Jul 6, 2018

mgb74 said:
In the winter, not very humid at all.

That is where I would leave them then.
Kodak recommends 60F or lower for black and white, and 55F or lower for professional colour: http://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/uat/files/wysiwyg/pro/cis_e30.pdf

guangong · Jul 6, 2018

Good advice. I don’t believe that film can’t survive five months.

removed account4 · Jul 6, 2018

guangong said:
Good advice. I don’t believe that film can’t survive five months.

naaa not good advice, GREAT advice !
ive had film in a basement for YEARS ( 15-18 ) never any problems
and been using some polymax rc paper that was given to me in around 2001?
stored in the same basement, no fog ..
have a nice trip mgb74

mgb74 · Jul 6, 2018

My only concern with the Kodak publication is that they don't state their assumption for storage time. Some emulsions might be kept for years if I stock up. So it's not fresh film stored for 5 months then used.

Still, it seems that I might be making a mountain out of a mole hill.

removed account4 · Jul 6, 2018

hate to suggest this, but can you stick a roll of the same film in your 60F basement now
and shoot it in 4 months and see how it looks, it might give you a better idea what you might expect
if you decide to store it in there for the winter ...

mgb74 · Jul 6, 2018

jnanian said:
hate to suggest this, but can you stick a roll of the same film in your 60F basement now
and shoot it in 4 months and see how it looks, it might give you a better idea what you might expect
if you decide to store it in there for the winter ...

It's more an issue of how the film will look in 2 years if I store it in the basement over the winter.

MattKing · Jul 6, 2018

mgb74 said:
It's more an issue of how the film will look in 2 years if I store it in the basement over the winter.

It will look much better than you would.
How much of it is colour film?

Sirius Glass · Jul 6, 2018

A full refrigerator uses less power because it only cools the air inside. Therefore you should run the refrigerator for the whole time and have it packed with film. Also having film in an ice chest is not a good idea, once it gets hot it will stay hot and therefore you will be putting the film at risk.

pentaxuser · Jul 7, 2018

MattKing said:
It will look much better than you would.
How much of it is colour film?

Not necessarily the case. I tried storing myself in the basement over winter and came out with an amazing white toothed smile just like those old 1950s toothpaste adverts. However the doctor has warned me that it may disappear when I thaw out

pentaxuser

guangong · Jul 7, 2018

From my own admittedly limited experience, the only film that was finicky about storage conditions was Professional Kodachrome (in contrast to normal Kodachrome), a concern we no longer have to bother with. E6 is much more tolerant and B/W films, with the exception of movie film, are very robust with regards to storage. I only store movie films in a freezer, everything else resides comfortably in my basement.

mgb74 · Jul 7, 2018

MattKing said:
It will look much better than you would.
How much of it is colour film?

It will look better than I already.do. It's all b/w except for a few rolls of c41 and maybe a couple of rolls of E6.

Sirius Glass said:
A full refrigerator uses less power because it only cools the air inside. Therefore you should run the refrigerator for the whole time and have it packed with film. Also having film in an ice chest is not a good idea, once it gets hot it will stay hot and therefore you will be putting the film at risk.

Not much chance of getting hot in Minnesota from Nov to March, in basement or garage.

Old-N-Feeble · Jul 7, 2018

If you had a refrigerator in the garage, it would run when needed but just shut itself off when it's colder than the fridge is set to. Not wasteful at all.

Pentode · Jul 7, 2018

As the others have stated, if your basement is reasonably constant at 60F in the winter your film will be fine down there. Five months at that temperature is not likely to harm it a bit.
I finally broke down and bought a fridge for my film this year but, prior to that, I was a terrible film parent. I kept film, sometimes for years, in closets of NYC apartments where the summer temperatures often reached in the 90s.
I'm not suggesting anyone should do that. Ever.

What's worth noting, however, is that most of it fared okay. E6 would get cranky about it and start to color shift after a few months and faster C41 would, too, although it took a little longer. The black and white film was extremely forgiving of my terrible mistreatment of it. Yes, the faster stuff would start to get fogged but it took several years to happen. I never saw slower film deteriorate at all except for some rolls I completely forgot about and found about ten years later.

My point is not to discount the importance of proper film storage. What I did was stupid and I'm not suggesting anyone should be completely cavalier about protecting their film investment as I was. What you might find, though, is that film is a bit more forgiving than one might think. Photojournalists have traveled far longer than five months with film stored in terrible conditions and produced enduring images that have, literally, made the history books. Five months in a cool dry basement sounds not only like acceptable conditions to me, it sounds like perfect conditions!

Enjoy your travel. Your film will be fine when you get back.

bdial · Jul 7, 2018

Running your film fridge while you are gone isn't any more wasteful than running it while you're home, given that the point is providing a good environment for preserving your film. Since you won't be opening and closing it, and presumably the ambient temp in the room will be lower than when occupied, the fridge will run with the greatest efficiency it's capable of. But, yes it will still be consuming some power.
As already mentioned, however, your basement, if dry, will be a fine environment for it. I'd make sure you have some sort of vapor barrier or air space between whatever container you put the film in and the concrete, if it would be on the floor.

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 7, 2018

I have film that's half exposed and still in the camera that I kept in the garage that now's getting pretty hot due to the summer. What should I expect shooting the rest and developing in an outside processor? (Tmax 100 and Velvia 50)

mgb74 · Jul 7, 2018

Running the refrigerator when I'm gone is more wasteful in that it's not being used to keep perishable food from spoiling. The refrigerator where we will be living for 5 months will be doing that. So any solution that involves keeping the refrigerator running for 5 months in an unoccupied home (or garage) is only justified if it's necessary to keep the film from spoiling.

I'm opting for the cooler in the basement. It will be pretty low humidity when I close it up in November.

MattKing · Jul 7, 2018

A wine refrigerator would probably be ideal. It would be interesting to know how much or how little electricity such a refrigerator would use if it was never opened and was in your 60F basement.

Sirius Glass · Jul 7, 2018

MattKing said:
A wine refrigerator would probably be ideal. It would be interesting to know how much or how little electricity such a refrigerator would use if it was never opened and was in your 60F basement.

You would let the wine get warm and spoil?!?!? How could you??

MattKing · Jul 7, 2018

MattKing said:
A wine refrigerator would probably be ideal. It would be interesting to know how much or how little electricity such a refrigerator would use if it was never opened and was in your 60F basement.

Sirius Glass said:
You would let the wine get warm and spoil?!?!? How could you??

No.
I am saying that a wine refrigerator, which is designed to keep its contents at a slightly closer to room temperatures than a regular refrigerator, may require very little electricity if used in a cool basement.

mgb74 · Jul 7, 2018

When we went looking for wine refrigerators a while ago (for wine), I was surprised at how inefficient they were. They use more electricity than a mid-sized refrigerator.

MattKing · Jul 8, 2018

mgb74 said:
When we went looking for wine refrigerators a while ago (for wine), I was surprised at how inefficient they were. They use more electricity than a mid-sized refrigerator.

Interesting.
I wonder whether expected usage (opening and closing the door) figures into the efficiency ratings.

mgb74 · Jul 8, 2018

MattKing said:
Interesting.
I wonder whether expected usage (opening and closing the door) figures into the efficiency ratings.

I believe expect usage is factored into efficiency ratings (at least how calculated in the US) but I don't think that's the reason. First, most of us open the refrigerator more often in a day than the wine cooler (if not, we need to have a talk). Second, there's a lot of thermal mass in those full wine bottles.

I think it has to do with the inefficiency of the small compressors used in those coolers. Whether it's inherent to a small compressor or just lack of concern about their efficiency, I don't know. Also, the thermoelectric versions (without compressor) are even less efficient.

A slightly different twist to the film storage question

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