A simple Holga question (I hope)

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MichiTimm

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Lol, I assure you nothing would ruin my holga experience more than exactness would! This is purely a minor curiosity for me.

And the actual aperture numbers and shutter speed don't matter to me at all. Just the process of selecting an aperture. To cover or to show. That is all. Not a big deal at all. I just have a lot of free time right now so I thought I'd throw it out there.


Thanks for all the answers/opinions and even for the random numbers people seem to love throwing around!
 

Joe VanCleave

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My Holga 120GFN actually selects one of two different sized round apertures (which I think are F/11 and F/16, from having measured them), while my 35mm Holga uses a round aperture for the wide setting and vignettes it with a square mask for the sunny setting.

~Joe
 

Pioneer

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Just funnin'. That is at least half the experience, maybe more, having fun.

I learned early on that the aperture setting had little to no impact. So I usually just use the ISO of the film to control my exposures, within very general guidelines of course.

Of course its a Holga and YMMV.
 

Tamara

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I just always leave the sun exposed. I don't think it actually does anything when you move that switch.

I picked up an EF-mount Holga lens; I think it's f/whatever. :confused:
 

darkosaric

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I picked up an EF-mount Holga lens; I think it's f/whatever. :confused:

Actually you can measure this more easy on canon or nikon body. Even more easy if you have digital body: the same shutter speed all the time, take couple of shots with normal lens on different f stops, then with holga lens and then compare what is the f stop of the lens that is more less the same illumination as from holga lens.
 

Tamara

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Now I have to do that, just to find out.
 

Sirius Glass

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The f stop or the effective f stop. If the f stop is determine by exposure, then it is an effective f stop.
 

mastoycam

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do what your holga say. when there are bright sun light then use a sun mode as well as cloud mode in a cloudy light. Use flash in shade, with a sun mode if your object are less than 3 feet.
 

darkosaric

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do what your holga say. when there are bright sun light then use a sun mode as well as cloud mode in a cloudy light. Use flash in shade, with a sun mode if your object are less than 3 feet.

Welcome to APUG . Nice photos on flickr you have .
 

markbarendt

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I have actually heard that "switching" apertures has no effect, more of a "feel good" switch. Essentially the hole for stopping down to the sunny setting is actually too large to stop it down.

When I got mine I actually just set it on cloudy, glued it in place, and never looked back.
 
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MichiTimm

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do what your holga say. when there are bright sun light then use a sun mode as well as cloud mode in a cloudy light. Use flash in shade, with a sun mode if your object are less than 3 feet.
Clearly.
The question was not when to use which setting, but how to select the setting. In other words, to select the "sun mode" do I move the switch so it covers the picture of the sun (thereby leaving the cloudy picture showing), or move the switch over to the cloudy picture (thereby leaving the sun picture showing)?
 

mooseontheloose

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If it's sunny, the "sun" should be showing. If it's cloudy, have the "cloud" showing. Here's an instruction manual that says the same thing: click.

However, as has been noted before, if you have an older Holga, changing from cloud to sun (and vice versa) does NOTHING - the aperture is the same for both (about f/13). Apparently the newer Holgas do have two different apertures. If you're not sure what you have, take the back off your camera (of course with no film inside it) and look at what happens when you change from sunny to cloudy setting. If the hole stays the same size, then you know you have a one aperture camera. If it changes, you've got two. You could also do some testing to see if the switch makes a difference - just shoot the same scene twice, changing the settings between cloudy and sunny. When you develop your negs (or get them done elsewhere) you should be able to see if there's a difference or not. With black and white film I wouldn't worry too much about it - the one-stop difference in exposure between the two settings shouldn't make a huge difference to how the negs turn out.
 
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baachitraka

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I can see the diameter of the aperture changing, when switching from Cloudy to sunny. But I don't think it will be one stop change though.
 
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MichiTimm

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If it's sunny, the "sun" should be showing. If it's cloudy, have the "cloud" showing. Here's an instruction manual that says the same thing: click.
That manual says the same thing? Could you quote me the part of that manual that says that? I can't find it. All I can find is the same kind of stuff it has in the regular ol' paper manual that comes with the camera:

"Set the aperture according to the weather/environmental conditions :

  • Sunny symbol for sunny outdoor occasions; and
  • Flash/Cloudy symbol for for cloudy outdoor or insufficiently lit-up indoor occasions."

I don't see where it addresses HOW to set the aperture - whether you select the sunny symbol by moving the switch to it or away from it. The consensus in this thread seems to be that you select the sunny symbol by moving the selector to the cloudy symbol and leaving the sunny symbol uncovered. Makes sense, but could you show me where it confirms that in the manual? Please?




Right. Already covered in previous posts that I've done all that. Thanks.
 

mooseontheloose

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That is exactly what this says! You are overthinking this. The sunny symbol should be showing for sunny. The cloudy symbol should be showing for cloudy. I am not the first person in this thread to have said so, yet you continue to show confusion about this. You are right in that no manual shows you this exactly -- I have 5 holgas, both versions of "Plastic Cameras" by Michelle Bates, and looked at all my online Holga resources to help you out. I have found nothing that indicates what you are looking for, but you keep asking even though everyone has been telling you the same thing.

And, as YOU have mentioned, you don't seem to see any aperture change with your camera, which means it does not matter what setting you have it on.

I did that. It appears that something moves, like a window swinging down or something. But I sure can't tell if it's bigger or smaller. Like I said, in practice I don't notice a difference regardless of which setting it's on.
And yep, I've definitely noticed no change in results -- but in my cameras the click actually is something happening (a little window thingie swinging down) but it doesn't appear to really affect anything.

To be honest, I never adjust ANY of the settings on the camera, other than N and B. The first thing I do with every Holga is throw away the lens cap, remove the insert and tape up the exposed bits to protect the film, and then it's ready to go. It's so far from being a precision instrument that worrying about cloudy/sunny settings and focus is not necessary...at least for me - and from what I understand from your posts, not for you either:

 

markbarendt

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You are overthinking this.

Yep.

Worrying about being able to adjust by 1-stop (whether possible or imagined) with a Holga, when shooting negatives, borders on ludicrous, unless one is in a studio. Actually probably even then.
 
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MichiTimm

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I'm not overthinking a thing thanks. I give this very little thought whatsoever and in the big picture it's not very important to me at all. Just wanted to make sure I didn't miss something in that manual you linked to, since the manual's ambiguous wording is pretty much what led to the question being asked in the first place.

I "keep asking"? No, people keep answering - and then I keep clarifying what the actual question was.
It has been answered by several people and I'd be fine with letting this die - I've accepted the consensus as the most commonly-believed answer. But then someone else will chime in. You, for example. I guess you were trying to help (?), but you asserted you had the definitive answer - documented, even - so I spent a couple minutes reading your link, which proved to be a waste of those couple minutes.

YOU (see, I can use all caps too) say you have looked at all your online resources, found nothing .... and I'm the one overthinking this? Please don't talk down to me for asking a question that you can't find the answer to. If you're not interested in the discussion, feel free to stay out of the thread. That's what I'm doing, except to respond to posts that I think should be responded to. I assure you I'm pretty much over this, and never actually gave it a whole lot of thought to begin with.
 
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MichiTimm

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Yep.

Worrying about being able to adjust by 1-stop (whether possible or imagined) with a Holga, when shooting negatives, borders on ludicrous, unless one is in a studio. Actually probably even then.
Nope.
Not worrying about this at all. It was a minor curiosity. I stated in my very first post - the one that fewer and fewer people seem to actually have read - that "For what it's worth, this is more of a theoretical/curiosity type question - because in practice I've noticed absolutely no difference in photos taken with either setting." So if you're overthinking this, don't blame me for it - that's on you.
 

removed account4

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Nope. I've noticed absolutely no difference in photos taken with either setting.

hi michitimm
i have an old 120N i think it is called
one of the first ones, it has a flash mount, no B and the fstop switch with the sun and clouds.
both apertures are exactly the same, its just a switchy thing to make you feel like you are
actually changing the fstop. i haven't noticed ( like you ) any difference in the photographs
made with the camera. and if it was over or under exposed 1 stop and b/w film
there are a few b/w films that one processes the same ( same time/temp ) nomatter
for 1 stop difference ( tmy for example ) so even if the camera's aperture actually worked
and it did over / under expose it wouldn't matter either ...
i don't use mine with color negative or chrome film so i can't tell you if it mattered with them, probably not
and if it did ( at least to me ) its just 1 stop and a lo fi camera and i wouldn't care, because
the whole reason to use a holga is because it is fun ... ( i also use a agfa sure shot the same way but get a bigger negative )
 
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It's funny how this thread started out as somewhat of a silly question about how the sun/shade slider setting works, then morphed into the more important question about what the slider actually does and what apertures it may or may not be. The latter was what is going to be bringing people here from Google for years to come, but the OP just kept stating the same question over and over.

The original question was answered right away, but it was especially good to learn about people's thoughts on the fstop values.

Remember OP, your question can provoke a discussion about something else and that's ok, as long as your question is addressed first. And it was.
 
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