A simple Holga question (I hope)

MichiTimm · Feb 25, 2015

Apparently Holgas are too complicated for me.
Above the lens there is a switch for selecting one of two apertures. On one side of the switch is a picture of the sun. The other side has what I think is the sun with some clouds in front of it.

I assume the "sun" setting means a smaller aperture, which would let in less light on bright sunny days and the cloudy setting would be a larger aperture to let in more light on cloudier darker days.

Simple enough, right? My question is ... if I was to select the "cloudy" larger aperture do I move the switch so it covers the "cloudy" picture? Or do I move the switch so it covers the "sun" and reveals the "cloudy"?

My first instinct was to move it over so it covers the clouds. But every time I glance down at the lens I see the uncovered sun picuture and wonder if maybe the symbol I can see is the symbol that is set.

Anyone?

For what it's worth, this is more of a theoretical/curiosity type question - because in practice I've noticed absolutely no difference in photos taken with either setting.

Richard S. (rich815) · Feb 25, 2015

Look at the aperture thru the lens to see what happens as you toggle the switch.

SLVR · Feb 25, 2015

its argued that on the 120N (the latest base version) that the clouds and sun either mean F8, F11 or F11, F16. Really all you need to know is that there's only a one stop difference between the two settings.

If you are having problems determining exactly what setting is which you can set the 120N into "B" mode and with the shutter depressed, switch between the two sun and cloud settings to see your aperture change.

Good luck.

Jim17x · Feb 25, 2015

If you have the cloud icon showing that means your are shooting at f8 and I believe the sun icon is f11.. The shutter speed should be apx 125th..

Richard S. (rich815) · Feb 25, 2015

Unless you're shooting chromes generally it's not going to matter the exact f/stop. Just that one is 1-2 stops larger than the other. Being over or under exposed is all part of the Holga experience because all their shutter speeds are likely not that consistent either camera to camera. Just use your unit, learn it and adjust your technique based on the knowledge you gain from your personal experience and results and what you're after. That's way more important than trying to nail down the exact specs of a Holga.

winger · Feb 25, 2015

I'm fairly sure that whichever one is showing is what is supposedly selected. However, as I think you've noticed, it isn't commonly believed to make any difference. I do hear a click when I move mine, but I don't think anything inside actually changes.

sjauch · Feb 25, 2015

I just always leave the sun exposed. I don't think it actually does anything when you move that switch.

Its a Holga, don't over think it. Press the shutter release and advance the film, repeat.

Richard S. (rich815) · Feb 25, 2015

winger said:
I'm fairly sure that whichever one is showing is what is supposedly selected. However, as I think you've noticed, it isn't commonly believed to make any difference. I do hear a click when I move mine, but I don't think anything inside actually changes.

Mine does. It slides in a plastic piece with a different sized aperture.

Pioneer · Feb 25, 2015

There's a switch?

I knew I should have read the paper that came in the box. :confused:

Sirius Glass · Feb 25, 2015

Welcome to APUG

bvy · Feb 25, 2015

The true apertures (in spite of the documentation) are ~f13 and ~f20. If cloudy is showing, you're at f13; if the sun is showing, you're at f20. Err on the side of overexposure (cloudy). It only really matters in extreme conditions and (maybe) for close focusing.

Check this out:
Dead Link Removed

Richard S. (rich815) · Feb 25, 2015

So let's keep track. In this thread alone people have claimed f8, 11, 13, 16, and 20.

MattKing · Feb 25, 2015

Richard Sintchak (rich815) said:
So let's keep track. In this thread alone people have claimed f8, 11, 13, 16, and 20.

I'm looking forward to DREW WILEY chiming in.

Pioneer · Feb 25, 2015

According to the Holga Manual the cloudy setting is equivalent to f8 and the sunny setting is equivalent to f11.

The shutter speed, based on the manual, is 1/100 seconds.

This is for the Holga 120n.

However, based on the rather relaxed build quality of this camera you may in fact get aperture settings as tight as f/20 or as loose as f/5.6. Likewise the shutter speed may have a certain amount of variation.

If you are truly worried about achieving exact exposures you may not be using the proper camera.

darkosaric · Feb 25, 2015

winger said:
I'm fairly sure that whichever one is showing is what is supposedly selected. However, as I think you've noticed, it isn't commonly believed to make any difference. I do hear a click when I move mine, but I don't think anything inside actually changes.

My Holga is the same - I hear the click, but looking on the lens - nothing happens.

MichiTimm · Feb 25, 2015

Richard Sintchak (rich815) said:
Look at the aperture thru the lens to see what happens as you toggle the switch.

I did that. It appears that something moves, like a window swinging down or something. But I sure can't tell if it's bigger or smaller. Like I said, in practice I don't notice a difference regardless of which setting it's on.

MichiTimm · Feb 25, 2015

SLVR said:
its argued that on the 120N (the latest base version) that the clouds and sun either mean F8, F11 or F11, F16. Really all you need to know is that there's only a one stop difference between the two settings.

If you are having problems determining exactly what setting is which you can set the 120N into "B" mode and with the shutter depressed, switch between the two sun and cloud settings to see your aperture change.

Good luck.

Oh, I don't really need to know any of it, lol. I'm just curious. And I've tried what you suggest with "B" mode and switching -- like I said, something changes but I'll be darned if I can tell what. As far as I can tell there is no difference at all between the settings - just wondering which is supposed to be which. Thanks though.

MichiTimm · Feb 25, 2015

Jim17x said:
If you have the cloud icon showing that means your are shooting at f8 and I believe the sun icon is f11.. The shutter speed should be apx 125th..

Aha! That's the answer I'm looking for. Well, I don't really care what the actual apertures are but at least now I officially have someone saying that to select the cloudy setting (for the larger aperture) I want to have the cloudy picture showing, not covered -- which is the opposite of what my instincts were. Thank you. Thank you even more if you're right -- although the good news is I don't think either one of my Holgas is going to do anything to let me know if you're wrong!

MichiTimm · Feb 25, 2015

Richard Sintchak (rich815) said:
Unless you're shooting chromes generally it's not going to matter the exact f/stop. Just that one is 1-2 stops larger than the other. Being over or under exposed is all part of the Holga experience because all their shutter speeds are likely not that consistent either camera to camera. Just use your unit, learn it and adjust your technique based on the knowledge you gain from your personal experience and results and what you're after. That's way more important than trying to nail down the exact specs of a Holga.

Yeah, I don't care what the exact f/stop is - just where I need the selector switch to be to select the one that's allegedly larger. Not trying to nail down any specs at all.

I agree entirely with your "just use your unit ..." sentence and that's exactly what I've done. As far as I can the only thing that controls the exposure on these things - at least the ones I have - is film selection and use of flash. And I'm okay with that -- I have an awful lot of fun messing around with these ridiculous things!

Thanks!

MichiTimm · Feb 25, 2015

winger said:
I'm fairly sure that whichever one is showing is what is supposedly selected. However, as I think you've noticed, it isn't commonly believed to make any difference. I do hear a click when I move mine, but I don't think anything inside actually changes.

Cool -- that's two answers, and they're both the same.
And yep, I've definitely noticed no change in results -- but in my cameras the click actually is something happening (a little window thingie swinging down) but it doesn't appear to really affect anything.

Thanks!

MichiTimm · Feb 25, 2015

sjauch said:
I just always leave the sun exposed. I don't think it actually does anything when you move that switch.

Its a Holga, don't over think it. Press the shutter release and advance the film, repeat.

That's actually exactly what I've been doing. Sun exposed (sometimes I'll change it just sort of as "bracketing", but I never see a difference), not thinking much at all, pressing shutter, advancing film (usually), repeating. Good times.

MichiTimm · Feb 25, 2015

Pioneer said:
There's a switch?

I knew I should have read the paper that came in the box. :confused:

LOL.
I did read it. It didn't help.
It just says to set the exposure selector switch to according to the weather conditions (sunny for sunny, flash/cloudy for cloudy/indoor/lower light stuff), but it never says HOW to select which you want. Yes, you use the switch but do you slide it toward the one you want to select, or away from it so it leaves the symbol you want visible? Apparently the consensus, albeit a consensus of only two so far, is that to select sunny you leave sunny visible.

But yeah. Doesn't seem to matter in practice. Just curious as to what the intent is.

MichiTimm · Feb 25, 2015

bvy said:
The true apertures (in spite of the documentation) are ~f13 and ~f20. If cloudy is showing, you're at f13; if the sun is showing, you're at f20. Err on the side of overexposure (cloudy). It only really matters in extreme conditions and (maybe) for close focusing.

Check this out:
Dead Link Removed

Okay, we have a third "it's the one that's showing" answer.

I came across that site and looked it over before posting this thread. As far as I can tell it doesn't address my question. It says what you say about cloudy being f/13 and sunny being f/20 but it doesn't say anything about how to know which is selected.

I'm sure the cloudy is supposed to be the larger aperture. My only wonder is do you select cloudy by moving the switch to it, or by moving it to sunny - which leaves cloudy uncovered. So far, it's 3-0 in favor of moving the switch to sunny if you want to select cloudy.

Thanks.

MichiTimm · Feb 25, 2015

Man, I could use a multi-quote up in here, lol.

Richard S. (rich815) · Feb 25, 2015

I apologize. I forgot that I obtained all my Holgas from www.holgamods.com who drills out and makes the camera have two distinct apertures.

A simple Holga question (I hope)

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