A question for Pentax 645 users

micek · Sep 28, 2008

Hi, I am looking for a 6x45 outfit that will provide me with long and wide angle lenses to complement my Bronica RF645. The Bronica is a pleasure to shoot hand held, unlike my Hasselblad 503, which I regard as a tripod camera.
I have looked into 6x45 SLRs and the smallest and lightest seems to be the Pentax 645. Now, my worry is, is this a genuinely handholdable body? Is the mirror slap well dampened enough to shoot hand held at, say, 1/60 with the standard 75mm lens? Is there a major mirror slap improvement with the 645N II?
Thanks for any info.

Nick Zentena · Sep 28, 2008

The 645 is easy to handhold. The major limitation is the flash sync. That and fixed backs are about it for limits. The built in winder is a pain if you run out of batteries so keep a spare set of AAs with you. Either that or remember the emergency hand crank method. :rolleyes:

OTOH why not the Bronica ETRSI? If you don't need the metering prism or the autowinder it should be cheaper then even the early Pentax and often alot cheaper then the later models.

Sputnik · Sep 28, 2008

micek said:
Hi, I am looking for a 6x45 outfit that will provide me with long and wide angle lenses to complement my Bronica RF645. The Bronica is a pleasure to shoot hand held, unlike my Hasselblad 503, which I regard as a tripod camera.
I have looked into 6x45 SLRs and the smallest and lightest seems to be the Pentax 645. Now, my worry is, is this a genuinely handholdable body? Is the mirror slap well dampened enough to shoot hand held at, say, 1/60 with the standard 75mm lens? Is there a major mirror slap improvement with the 645N II?
Thanks for any info.

I don't know the difference (if any in this regard) between I and II, since I have only owned vesrion I. The 645 is truly handholdable, and I suspect that is one of the reasons that it was very popular among fashion photographers. It also has an exellent light meter. All this makes it feel a lot like a 35 mm SLR.

The Pentax 645 is a real joy to use!

weasel · Sep 28, 2008

I handles just like a 35. It was clearly designed with eye level hand holding in mind.

Phillip P. Dimor · Sep 28, 2008

It was definitely meant to be held. I can shoot as low a 1/60th with no problems. There is no mirror slap either.
I use it hand held all the time..

craigclu · Sep 28, 2008

I use the RF645 and also have a Pentax 645. I only use the Pentax when I absolutely need the slr aspects (long lens or macro). They are very capable and hand-holdable. I tend to use at least a mono pod with longer lenses, though. Your Bronica optics have an edge in absolute sharpness but the Pentax glass is also very good. I feel very trusting of the Bronica meter but tend to rely upon a handheld when using the Pentax. This, more because of the duties I'm using each for as the metering is quite good with the Pentax.

My reason for getting the P645 was that I found one at a great price with a 75 and 150. My main slr rig is a P67 system and a lens adapter let me use all of my accumulated P67 glass on the P645. Its finder is much brighter and faster to use than the P67 and the use of the adapter is transparent in the way that I use it. At the fire sale pricing that I see of late, it would be a cheap experiment to simply buy one and resell if it's not right for you.... I think most people would be very pleased with one.

winger · Sep 28, 2008

I have the 645N and I call it a 35mm on steroids. I can handhold it with the 75mm pretty easily. With the 120mm, not so much (the lens is pretty long, which affects the balance). The mirror slap hasn't caused me problems, but it and the film advance are quite loud. I'm not sure which is louder as they happen so close together, but it's not a camera for sneaking up on anything. Many of my favorite shots have been taken with it.

Phillip P. Dimor · Sep 28, 2008

I use my hasselblad hand held much of the time but the pentax 645 is the camera I use when I need to be quick. It is very quick and easy to operate. Needs very little if any maintenance. It is also very well dampened but I do agree, it is quite loud. Although it's on the same level as my 503cx, minus the sound of the motor drive whirring.

I used mine on a tripod a lot as well but the results were the same hand held, unless I needed very slow times. Handheld I would go down to 1/60 with no problems.

It's kind of a pain to use on a tripod due to the eyelevel. I did a lot of bending and crouching and contorting. Also using a standard cable release can be a pain as the shutter release button is very finicky.

I've only used one lens, the 75mm f2.8. That's all I really need. It is a fantastic lens, one with which I find very few if any real faults.

Pupfish · Sep 28, 2008

I too have the 645N, mated full-time to the excellent manual focus 35mm f/3.5. It's is as light as my Nikon F5 and 17-35mm (yet with arguably better ergonomics!) I can reliably handhold it to 1/15th and get tack-sharp results. There is no appreciable mirror slap, so the premium that the 645NII fetches is rather baffling. The 645N was the first AF version with both matrix and spot metering, TTL flash. Matrix and spot metering are uncannily right on, but you can't use TTL flash with the leaf shutter lenses that are available (needed to boost the fill-flash shutter speed above 1/60th of the focal plane shutter). This I believe is the biggest limitation to the camera, otherwise it's the natural professional progression to the excellent PZ-1 in 35mm (better dust sealing and ruggedness).

There's an extensive lens system, from tank-like all metal SMC-A manual focus lenses up to and including autofocus ED tele glass and aspheric wide angles for it. You can also use any of the 67 lenses with full featured metering via the Pentax adapter, which makes lens availability hands down the most extensive. Check out the MTF data on PhotoDo for several of these well regarded lenses.

Might also want to consider that at the $300-400 prices they're typically going for right now in Exc+ or Mint- shape, the 645N is priced at just a bit more than what the last Bronica ETRSi AE III metering finder alone went for on eBay!

micek · Sep 28, 2008

Thank you all for the info.

winger · Sep 28, 2008

This I believe is the biggest limitation to the camera, otherwise it's the natural professional progression to the excellent PZ-1 in 35mm (better dust sealing and ruggedness).

I agree about the flash sync and about the PZ. I have the PZ-1p and love it, too. Both operate very intuitively.

yurihuta · Oct 2, 2008

Having owned both the 645 and 645N, I feel that the mirror slap is better dampened on the 645N. I agree that the meter is quite accurate on the 645N. I believe it has a dual six zone (one wide area, one more concentrated) metering pattern. Also, for what it is worth to you, you can imprint relevant data onto the non image part of the emulsion (shutter speed, aperture, metering pattern etc.) on the N series. Lenses are continuing to go down in price.

Either one is hand holdable. I sold my Bronica SQAi outfit because this was a more hand holdable option. It just feel right (correct).

Pupfish · Oct 2, 2008

The knobs for shutter speed and exposure compensation on the 645N are big improvement over the 645 body's goofy up/down buttons. With this change and Matrix Metering that you don't have to try to out-guess, the 645N becomes about as intuitive as a camera can be, at least I find it so.

I'm not exactly sure what the 645N II does so much better than 645N as to justify two to three times greater price on eBay. Admittedly, they do look a little nicer with the matte finish and the different texture to the naugahyde. There was also more customization available to the data imprinting, though I don't believe that these settings are user-changeable (they're service-center changeable, but I haven't been able to determine exactly what they are, and some time ago, Pentax dropped customization as a service for the 645N, at least). Jury is out on the need for mirror lock-up on the NII. Now, on my Pentax LX the mirror-up function is very useable while doing 1/3 stop auto-exposure bracketing since the metering is done continuously off the film plane with the meter cell inside the mirror box on that particular camera (not just the flash sensor in the mirror box). While the viewfinder is blacked out with MLU the metering is still happening in real-time. On other cameras with the metering in the prism (645, 645N, & 645NII all, as far as I know), MLU can be inconvenient to use as you have to manually meter or exposure-lock prior to flipping the mirror up and making the exposure.

Another minor difference between the 645N & NII is that they use different electric cable releases-- the NII one being rarer and much more expensive. What I have found, though, is that the 645N is strangely sensitive to latching the metering in the half-depress "on" conditon instead of it cycling off and going to sleep after 30 seconds after the button is released or after an exposure, whenever I have an extension cable spliced into the stock cable, or whenever the camera is wired into an a PIR trigger for my night-time wildlife remotes. Perhaps someone will chime in to tell me that Pentax cured this on the NII.

nworth · Oct 4, 2008

The Pentax 645 comes with a grip that makes it easy to handhold. The design allows you to take a very stable stance and operate the shutter and focus controls with ease. Mirror slap is minimal, and it is usually not a factor. That said, the camera does weigh a couple of pounds, and the lenses are not stabilized against motion. A tripod will definitely improve your pictures at 1/125 and slower.

Palantiri7 · Oct 5, 2008

I have to agree with Pupfish about those up/down buttons on the Pentax 645. I also have to gripe about being stuck with one-stop exposure compensation intervals. The only way around that is by altering the film ISO setting, which causes the obvious problems when you forget to reset it! The light meter is indeed very good.

wiltw · Oct 5, 2008

My gripe about the Pentax 645 for hand holding is the positioning of the built in grip on the body, fore and aft. It is at the back of the body, so that all weight is carried forward of that point. Very long lenses particularly bias the weight to a front heavy camera.

mrwram · Nov 3, 2014

Pentax 645nII - Multiple Exposure mode

Hello...
Can anyone tell me the maximum number of shots allowed with the Multiple Exposure mode on a 645NII...???
Thanks

- mrwram

Pioneer · Nov 3, 2014

If you are talking about consecutive firing, just fire away to your heart's content. It isn't exactly the fastest but it will continue to fire as long as you hold the shutter down, and you have film. Since it isn't digital there is no buffer but there is a film limitation. Sixteen shots for 120, 32 for 220. About 2 frames per second.

If you are discussing exposure bracketing, then it brackets 3 shots at different exposures. Hold the shutter down and it will fire the three shots and quit.

pentaxuser · Nov 3, 2014

I wonder if the reference to multiple exposure is in fact a reference to how many times you can expose on the same frame as in double, triple, quadruple etc exposure?

pentaxuser

Pioneer · Nov 3, 2014

Probably. I am just trying hard to be particularly dense today...and being quite successful I may add.

I guess since that is something I try very hard to avoid doing it never crossed my mind that someone else would want to.

mrwram · Nov 4, 2014

Dan,

Thank you for your reply. I was wondering about how many exposure you can make in the same frame. The reason I am asking is because I just stumble across a certain technique called "Painting with Time.." used by a British photographer. He described the technique as to making a multiple exposure comprised of 60 or 120 shots of 1/60 sec. each in the same frame to make a 1 or 2 sec. full exposure. The camera that he uses is a Pentax 645NII, but he doesn't go into details about how he sets the camera....

mrwram · Nov 4, 2014

pentaxuser,

You are correct, that is exactly what I am referring to.... How many shots or exposures are you able to take into 1 frame, when using the Multiple Exposure mode.
As I replied to Dan, the reason I am asking is because I stumbled across a certain technique called "Painting with Time" and I was wondering how was done....

A question for Pentax 645 users

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