A persons first TLR

Dennis-B · Aug 10, 2019

CMoore said:
Thanks for the info.
If a body is in good shape (any body, not just this one) and had a decent lens, it thought i would go ahead an buy it, and look for another lens (either long or short) later.
Then again, i do not know what these lens sell for, and i do not know if one focal length is harder to find or more expensive than another.
Maybe it is better to buy a body with a "Normal" focal length lens and look for some length later.?

That's how many folks do it. Start with a "normal" focal length lens, in this case 80mm, then move to a telephoto, then a wide angle. The lenses are available, and some will be nearly mint, since digital took off so quickly, and folks just stopped using their medium format cameras. The C330, and its iterations are the most advanced of the Mamiya TLR's. A lot of folks latch onto a C330f. It was the last all-metal of the 330's. The 330s replaced some metal parts with plastic, but I would take the "s" since it was the last model made.

campy51 · Aug 11, 2019

I see the one from Japan has free shipping and that's unusual, but if you Have to send it back for some reason it will cost you around $50. The one that Dennis-B shows looks like a good one and it's a better model if you don't mind the extra weight.

mgb74 · Aug 11, 2019

CMoore said:
In the scheme of things....... does THIS seem like a decent camera for the price.?
Thank You

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mamiya-C22...223601887218?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

I would avoid the older chrome Seikosha lenses. The 105mm lens is a bit better for portraits (though not as good perhaps as the 135mm). It "pairs" well with a 55 or 65mm.

CMoore · Aug 11, 2019

OK..... Thanks Again

voceumana · Aug 11, 2019

You might consider a Bronica SQ-Ai or SQ-B, depending upon what kind of price you can find. Good selection of lenses available, and a basic outfit with 80mm lens, 120 back, and waist level finder gives you very similar user experiense as a TLR, but with the option to add film backs and different lenses. Better lenses than a Yashica TLR. Shutter is a bit louder than a TLR, and the image blacks out when shutter is released. A basic outfit is as compact as a TLR, and find hand held use is easier for me.

Ces1um · Aug 11, 2019

CMoore said:
Several people have asked, so.......if i had to put a label on what the camera will be used for -
Portraits
and
"Street Photography"

Now maybe I'm wrong here, but I always got the impression that with street photography you don't really want the subject to notice that they're being photographed. Using a TLR, a camera that is quite unique and stands out in modern day, wouldn't that draw the attention of the subjects (unless of course you're taking their photo behind their back)? It might hurt your ability to get that candid shot in some circumstances. Just my two cents.
Now for portraits-

voceumana · Aug 11, 2019

For instances where you don't want to draw the attention of the subject, both the TLR and SLR with waist level finder can be rotated to the side so the photographer is looking perpendicular to the subject--and so is less conspicuous to the subject.

Ces1um · Aug 11, 2019

voceumana said:
For instances where you don't want to draw the attention of the subject, both the TLR and SLR with waist level finder can be rotated to the side so the photographer is looking perpendicular to the subject--and so is less conspicuous to the subject.

Yes- I guess you're right there. The twin lenses pointing at them might give it away a bit but I guess with your body turned 90 degrees to them they may not even look at you. I wish I could place it now but I remember seeing an old ad somewhere on the internets that advertised a box camera with a fake lens on the front. Instead it had inconspicuous lenses on it's side and was designed specifically to take photographs of people that you were not facing but were turned 90 degrees away from. People have been doing this street photography thing for a long time I suppose. It looked quite old. Like pre brownie hawkeye old. Pretty sure it was an early model of box camera.

Dan Daniel · Aug 11, 2019

Ces1um said:
Now maybe I'm wrong here, but I always got the impression that with street photography you don't really want the subject to notice that they're being photographed. Using a TLR, a camera that is quite unique and stands out in modern day, wouldn't that draw the attention of the subjects (unless of course you're taking their photo behind their back)? It might hurt your ability to get that candid shot in some circumstances. Just my two cents.
Now for portraits-

My experience with TLRs and street work is that almost no one notices. When you are looking down at something in your hands, we all know what that means- phone. Who cares? I've stood right in front of people, had them look straight at the camera, straight at me, and without any indication of concern go right back to what they were doing. Again and again.

Paul Strand did the fake lens thing- https://mashable.com/2016/07/08/paul-strand-new-york-portraits/

Dennis-B · Aug 11, 2019

voceumana said:
You might consider a Bronica SQ-Ai or SQ-B, depending upon what kind of price you can find. Good selection of lenses available, and a basic outfit with 80mm lens, 120 back, and waist level finder gives you very similar user experiense as a TLR, but with the option to add film backs and different lenses. Better lenses than a Yashica TLR. Shutter is a bit louder than a TLR, and the image blacks out when shutter is released. A basic outfit is as compact as a TLR, and find hand held use is easier for me.

The SQ-A is the back up to my 500 C/M, and both are set up similarly, along with similar lens batteries. I do like the C330s, since its shutter is so quiet.

Cholentpot · Aug 11, 2019

voceumana said:
For instances where you don't want to draw the attention of the subject, both the TLR and SLR with waist level finder can be rotated to the side so the photographer is looking perpendicular to the subject--and so is less conspicuous to the subject.

Never thought of this...Now I have to try it.

johnha · Aug 13, 2019

Cholentpot said:
Never thought of this...Now I have to try it.

It's more of a challenge than you might first think as anyone trying to frame verticals with a 6x4.5 & WLF will know. Every axis is 90 degrees out from where you expect and with the Left-Right reversal becomes Up-Down. Overhead shots are useful for shooting over crowds and are much easier to frame.

Grim Tuesday · Aug 13, 2019

johnha said:
It's more of a challenge than you might first think as anyone trying to frame verticals with a 6x4.5 & WLF will know. Every axis is 90 degrees out from where you expect and with the Left-Right reversal becomes Up-Down. Overhead shots are useful for shooting over crowds and are much easier to frame.

I've heard that the TLR was invented for the express purpose of acting as a periscope camera so that a soldier stuck in a trench during WWI would not have to raise any part of their body above the top to take a picture.

Luckless · Aug 13, 2019

Grim Tuesday said:
I've heard that the TLR was invented for the express purpose of acting as a periscope camera so that a soldier stuck in a trench during WWI would not have to raise any part of their body above the top to take a picture.

Given that Twin Lens and Twin Lens Reflex cameras predate the war by a few decades, I'm going to go with "That seems unlikely..."

Magnus919 · Oct 16, 2019

Paul Howell said:
Mamiya is good for Portraits as you use interchangeable lens while a Rollie or Yaschia is good for street shooting due to being lighter.

Some of the greatest portraitists ever are rolling in their graves, gripping their Rolleis tightly right now.

Grim Tuesday said:
I've had quite a few TLRs and have a lot of opinions on them. I really like the form factor and I keep buying them. I've had a Mamiya C220, C330, Rolleiflex 3.5e Planar, Autocord, Rolleicord, Yashica D (yashinon tessar), Yashica LM (yashikor) and Yashica-mat LM (yashinon triplet). I'll summarize my opinions below:
*snip*
I sold most of them. I currently only have the Rolleicord and the Mamiyas. I wish I had kept the Autocord and gotten it repaired, it's an awesome camera. Flat film plane, very high build quality, lenses are also great. They are not as sharp as the Rolleiflex Planar but I did find the color rendition to be perhaps better. The mamiya is a different beast but it certainly has its place if you don't mind bulk and want the features. But why are you getting a TLR if you don't mind bulk?

Of them, I feel that the Rolleicord is the most pure TLR. It is the lightest and has the best lens for its price. They are currently underpriced on the market. Get one before everyone catches on. I feel like only the Planar Rolleiflexes are "worth" the weight, price and complication increase over the Rolleicord. And maybe the Autocord, which is a great deal at $150, but I'm not sure are a great deal at $250.

This contribution was pure gold. I appreciate you taking the time to write it. Let me ask, since you've had experience with all of these... if you were traveling the world with a TLR for travel & street photography, what would you take with you (assuming budget was not an issue)?

Willy T · Oct 16, 2019

Magnus919 said:
Some of the greatest portraitists ever are rolling in their graves, gripping their Rolleis tightly right now.

Yeah; Avedon wept.

anthonym3 · Oct 17, 2019

I am surprised that no one has mentioned very well made robust affordable IKOFLEX tlr I have had a ROLLEIFLEX 3.5 TESSAR but regrettablyi n a money crunch sold it. I now have four IKOFLEX one MAMIYAFLEX 2 and I MAMIYA C3 love them all.

AndyH · Oct 17, 2019

Magnus919 said:
Some of the greatest portraitists ever are rolling in their graves, gripping their Rolleis tightly right now.

This contribution was pure gold. I appreciate you taking the time to write it. Let me ask, since you've had experience with all of these... if you were traveling the world with a TLR for travel & street photography, what would you take with you (assuming budget was not an issue)?

I agree! That was a splendid post. I've owned a number over the years, but have only a couple in my cabinet right now, my first one (a Richoflex) and a Rollei 3.5 Tessar. But this thread has made me lust for a late model Ikoflex and a C330, among others. I have no need of them, but they feel so good in operation that taking photos becomes a tactile pleasure. I'd also love to have an Ansco Reflex for its unique construction, and maybe a 6x9 folding TLR?

http://www.collection-appareils.fr/x/html/camera-1169-Welta_Superfekta.html

I hope the OP found his perfect TLR, and if it doesn't "feel" right in operation that he tries out another model, and another, and still another until he finds one. Having a camera that feels perfect in operation in your hands, for your type of photography, adds intensely to the pleasure of shooting, at least for those of us who are lucky enough to shoot for pleasure only. My list includes that Rollei, an Ikoflex, virtually every Leica I've ever handled, Nikon and Canon rangefinders, many Zeiss folders, several Kodak Retinas, and, of course, my beloved Hasselblad. I'm sure there are others I haven't yet discovered, or just dreamed about (Alpa, Ima lookin' at you), but I want to remind anyone reading this thread to consider that non-quantifiable "feel" factor in picking their vintage film gear.

Andy

anthonym3 · Oct 17, 2019

AndyH52 said:
I agree! That was a splendid post. I've owned a number over the years, but have only a couple in my cabinet right now, my first one (a Richoflex) and a Rollei 3.5 Tessar. But this thread has made me lust for a late model Ikoflex and a C330, among others. I have no need of them, but they feel so good in operation that taking photos becomes a tactile pleasure. I'd also love to have an Ansco Reflex for its unique construction, and maybe a 6x9 folding TLR?

http://www.collection-appareils.fr/x/html/camera-1169-Welta_Superfekta.html

I hope the OP found his perfect TLR, and if it doesn't "feel" right in operation that he tries out another model, and another, and still another until he finds one. Having a camera that feels perfect in operation in your hands, for your type of photography, adds intensely to the pleasure of shooting, at least for those of us who are lucky enough to shoot for pleasure only. My list includes that Rollei, an Ikoflex, virtually every Leica I've ever handled, Nikon and Canon rangefinders, many Zeiss folders, several Kodak Retinas, and, of course, my beloved Hasselblad. I'm sure there are others I haven't yet discovered, or just dreamed about (Alpa, Ima lookin' at you), but I want to remind anyone reading this thread to consider that non-quantifiable "feel" factor in picking their vintage film gear.

Andy

anthonym3 · Oct 17, 2019

Andy,there are two ANSCO AUTOMATIC REFLEX cameras for sale on ETSY right now. Tony

AndyH · Oct 17, 2019

anthonym3 said:
Andy,there are two ANSCO AUTOMATIC REFLEX cameras for sale on ETSY right now. Tony

I've never really looked on Etsy. Thanks for the tip!

I "need" one like I need another necktie after fifty years of "Necktie Acquisition Syndrome" but they are so beautifully made. The lens is the weakest link, but I've always wanted one so much, and now I can afford lots of film gear that I couldn't have dreamed of when I was young. I remember reading somewhere that the whole camera was so beautifully designed and fitted that it would hold together without a single screw in place - just the leatherette covering.

Just don't tell my wife if I order one while she's away visiting the grandkids!

Andy

A persons first TLR

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