A night vision for dark room film loading

[Alexz]

Just out of curiosity: can a night vision devices (such as IR night vision goggles) be safely used to make dark room film loading visual ?
I guess all of these devices are of active IR type, i.e. emitting IR (unless I'm wrong and they are of passive type - just collecting IR from outside space), so the question is whether film (and slide in particular) is sensitive to IR.
I know, film is quite sensitive to the opposite region (i.e. UV) of the spectrum, even though it is eye invisible, but have no idea about IR sensitivity.

So, yuor opinion ? (or yet better educated knowledge ?)

Alex

 

[Sean]

I do this and highly recommend it. here is my setup (you are allowed to laugh):
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

searching apug on night vision will bring up some other threads as well..

 

[sanking]

Absolutely. I recently bough a pair of night vision goggles and they make certain operations in the dark room, such as loading film in ULF holders or putting it in tubes for development, much easier.

Not something you could not live without, but a nice little tool for people like me with clumsy hands in the dark.

Sandy

Just out of curiosity: can a night vision devices (such as IR night vision goggles) be safely used to make dark room film loading visual ?
I guess all of these devices are of active IR type, i.e. emitting IR (unless I'm wrong and they are of passive type - just collecting IR from outside space), so the question is whether film (and slide in particular) is sensitive to IR.
I know, film is quite sensitive to the opposite region (i.e. UV) of the spectrum, even though it is eye invisible, but have no idea about IR sensitivity.

So, yuor opinion ? (or yet better educated knowledge ?)

Alex

 

[Alexz]

Thanks guys, understood.
Sean, I'm not sure I've got your point of sealing yourself with the device into dark cloth - did you concern about your face reflecting the IR emmision by the device ? But if the film isn't sensitive to IR, why should you bother ?

BTW, guys, what kind of devices do you use ? There are several ATN goggles currently on Ebay with Buy It Now 229$. Are those the kind I would be after ?
Also, I'm wearing spectacles, will it interfere with goggles fitting ?

 

[Sean]

The goggle uses infrared light as illumination which is invisible to the film, but the light you view inside the goggle itself may not be film safe (very bright greenish light), and I found it quite bright and leaking from the eye piece area. I didn't want to take any chances so made a hood..

 

[Alexz]

Aha, thank yuo Sean, got it. Sounds reasonable.
Just edited my previous response. What can you say ?

 

[Sean]

I have the cheapie GEN1 ATN monocular with the head straps. When I win lotto I'll go for some GEN3 binoculars.. I don't think you'll have issues with glasses, and even if you did I think you could not wear them and make corrections with the adjustable eye piece..

 

[Alexz]

Thank you Sean, go it.

 

[htmlguru4242]

This is a good idea! It'll eliminate the dropped "lost" sheet film in the darkroom, which, after turning on the lights, reveals itself to be right under you ....

About how expensive are a cheap pair of IR goggles?

 

[Sean]

around 230US on ebay for a gen1 monocular.

 

[CRhymer]

Can anyone recommend an entry level model? Is magnification a good idea or is 1:1 best? Some of the low end ones don't focus closer than about 1.5 meters - probably not good for darkroom work? Any further info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Photo Engineer]

When people ask me why I don't hand coat panchromatic or red sensitive materials, I tell them the reason. Now Sean has shown us the reason.

Indeed light does leak out around your eyes and that greenish glow is right in the middle of ortho sensitivity, pan sensitivity (green portion) and color materials (the magenta layer), and so the units we used at EK were military grade designed to eliminate facial reflections so that the user could not be seen in any way by this reflected light.

So, when you buy a unit, you must have someone 'inspect' you in the dark, being dark adapted themselves, and advise you on correctly blocking any facial reflections, otherwise you fog your film.

Sean's method works, but is a bit draconian for my taste.

PE

 

[Sean]

Can anyone recommend an entry level model? Is magnification a good idea or is 1:1 best? Some of the low end ones don't focus closer than about 1.5 meters - probably not good for darkroom work? Any further info would be greatly appreciated.

My ATN monocular focuses quite close, I don't have the exact spec handy..

 

[sanking]

My wife saw me in those things and ran screaming out of the room saying she never wanted me to put them on again when she was in the house.

A "Silence of the Lamb" thing I guess.

Sandy

Sean's method works, but is a bit draconian for my taste.

PE

 

[resummerfield]

I took an old Kodak model A “bullet” safelight and added an 87C filter behind the #10 red filter, then cut a cardboard aperture to choke it down even more. With a 7.5w bulb, it illuminates the entire darkroom and eliminates the need for the add-on illuminator. This allows me to shroud the entire Argus gen 1 monocular better and eliminate any green glow.

So far I only use it to load holders and hangers, and not DBI. The setup works great, and has never fogged film.

 

[Donald Qualls]

So far I only use it to load holders and hangers, and not DBI. The setup works great, and has never fogged film.

If it's safe for loading, it's fine for DBI -- developer tends to desensitize film somewhat even when you haven't added a specific desensitizer, so even though the exposure is longer if you leave the setup illuminated throughout development, unless the film is specifically IR sensitive it won't be a problem.

 

[Alexz]

Sean, I'm still into NV market research. few things have become clealer, some issue rised however. For instance, many talk about a visible red glow out of IR illuminator.
Is this really the case ? If so, I assume it may fog the film (sinc the glow is in visible spectrum). Am I wrong ?

 

[htmlguru4242]

IR illuminators typically have a slight red golow .I am not sutre aboutt these specific NV systems, but it is usually not problematic. The glow is so dim and so deep red thaty it is not usually a problem.

 

[Alexz]

Thanks, hope this is indeed the case...

 

[Sean]

you will only see the glow directly within the led and it is very hard to see, but I hear you should NOT look into any IR light source as it could blind you. I've had my film exposed to infrared illumination for up to 20 minutes during dev and zero fogging

 

[Alexz]

Great, sounds reassuring, thanks.
I apparently will look into goggle binoculars suspecting that monocular may put a strain on the eye during prolonged use.

 

[vet173]

I recently bough a pair of night vision goggles. Sandy

I was wondering when I was going to see this post. Alex, don't worry about eye strain with monoculars. I use one and when in the dark both eyes are open as normal. I have been viewing negs prolonged at about 6" with no problem. Fp-4 in pyrocat. John Berry

 

[Alexz]

BTW, Sandy, what kind (brand and model) goggles did you acquire ?
I'm leaning towards D-2MV model (binocular goggle) - isn't particularily cheap but seems to be the best bet so far among similar models according to what I can gather reading reveiws and opinions...

 

[Alexz]

Thanks John, that helps.
But I instinctively feel somewhat uncomfortable imaging one eye being subjected to particular viewing conditions totally different from the other one.
How the eyes can acomodate such conditions ? Don't you feel a kind of incovenience seeing by one eye as usual whilst the other one is subjected to night vision view ?

 

[htmlguru4242]

I don't see that using a monocular would be a problem, other than wiht the inherent lack of good depth preception that it'll bring. I'v used an NV monocular for other purposes before, and its just like looking through a telescope at a bright source with the other eye open to the dark; a bit odd, but it works.

I'd imagine that anything'd be better than fishing around in the complete dark like most of us do.

I'd like to do this cheaply and pick up an old IR intensifier tube (about $50) and rig up a pair of IR goggles from random stuff thats banding around ...