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A New B&W Film (from Oriental)

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Colin Corneau

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MattKing

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It has already been noticed: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I'll ask the moderators to combine...
 

JW PHOTO

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That's good news and I wonder if they will offer 120 film also. Maybe 4X5? I've been tempted to try their paper since I ran out of the "blue box" Oriental Seagull about a month or so ago. Now that was a good paper!
 

chromacomaphoto

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That's good news and certainly not an everyday occurrence! Thanks for the heads up Colin. Would be great if that leads to them maybe considering doing it in 120 as well at some point, who knows?
 

mnemosyne

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Terrific news, and great timing for me as I'll be in Tokyo in April - hopefully can pick this up myself and try some out.

I fear that holding your breath is a waste of energy. I'm quite certain that this product is a clo... eh, pardon ... very similar to Kentmere 100/400 which are (minor differences put aside) aka "APX 100/400 new" aka "RPX100/400" aka "CHM100/400" (did I forget one?), at least one of which should already be readily available where you live. What makes me so certain? Well, the company "Cybergraphics" that is behind the "Seagull" film product and which used to call itself "Oriental" many moons ago, is the official Japanese distributor of Harman products (Ilford and Kentmere). They even run the semi-official Japanese Ilford site at ilfordphoto.jp. And when you look at the press release and the pictures, everything starting from the typography on the box to the packaging with the Harman-typical perforation literally screams "Harman".

I've always liked Oriental paper so I'm curious to see what they do in film. Plus - a new black and white film! That certainly doesn't happen often.

It depends on your definition of "new black and white film". To slightly rephrase what Mirko of Adox said a while ago, all you need nowadays to "make" a "new" black and white film is a sheet of paper, a printer and the necessary cash on your bank account. So it happens all the time (see the list above). Developing a new film in the strict sense of the word, that is from scratch, however is something that is way beyond the capability of a distribution company like Cybergraphics. Oriental has not produced (manufactured) film for many, many decades, and anyone who has expertise in that field has long left the company. Ordering a batch of film to some very general specifications (ISO speed 100/400, sensitivity not unlike that of a certain existing product, and "just a pinch of Zen added") is a completely different matter and will result in the more or less indistinguishable products like the ones listed above.

So IMHO this "new product" is not driven by engineering, that would be someone says, "let's create an interesting new film that has special qualities", it is most likely a market and marketing driven decision. Most likely has to do with the sharp price increase that Japan has witnessed for Ilford (also Kodak) branded products in recent years. That has created a vacuum in the sense of a sizeable market of more budget minded folks buying b&w film, which turned away from premium brand products and smaller independent importers try to serve them with Fomapan and other products. Apparently Cybergraphics does not want to give this market to competitors, hence it has introduced a budget alternative for its customers.

Now, don't get me wrong. I am a great fan of Kentmere 400, I think it is great product and use it all the time. And I have used APX400 new or CHM400 at times when I could not get hold of K400 without noticing any particular differences (rebate imprint aside).
 
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Michael W

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I saw on the Instagram feed of Tokyo Camera Style that he had bought a few rolls and the boxes say Made in the UK.
 

mnemosyne

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It is still a great news, no matter who is producing it :smile:. It means that there is a demand for it.

Absolutely, and I hope I didn't sound too negative. I don't particuarly mind the existence of such "made to order" products. If they help Harman staying afloat and offer film shooters in Japan a more affordable alternative, than I am the last to object. But the "breaking news" type of excitement that can be seen on some film related news sites ("exciting news", "phantastic", "Oriental Seagull is back" etc ...) in context of this announcement is just self-deception and helps no one.
 
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Colin Corneau

Colin Corneau

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Amusingly, about an hour after I posted this, I noticed on TCS that it was "made in the UK".

So, maybe not an entirely new film, but not a film going extinct either -- halfway along the spectrum, I guess!
 

pentaxuser

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I am puzzled. Is this a film made to different specifications to the current range and in that sense "new" and if so will the different specifications make a noticeable difference the extent that a user could easily pick out an Oriental negative from say a Kentmere one which seem to be the film it is being compared to?

If none of the above apply then in what sense is it new and a welcome addition?

pentaxuser
 

MattKing

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I am puzzled. Is this a film made to different specifications to the current range and in that sense "new" and if so will the different specifications make a noticeable difference the extent that a user could easily pick out an Oriental negative from say a Kentmere one which seem to be the film it is being compared to?

If none of the above apply then in what sense is it new and a welcome addition?

pentaxuser

The good news part of this is that it is an expression of interest at the distribution and marketing level.

IMHO, much of the dysfunction we see in the analog photographic markets is due to problems with distribution.
 

Luckless

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Personally I view it as good news when a newly badged film hits shelves, even if it is an identical product that is already on the market. It isn't great news in and of itself, but if a reseller can move enough film under their own branding from an existing supplier, then that will encourage the bean counters to carefully look at the market.

If someone is able to turn healthy profits off a rebadged product that is identical to an existing product in every last way but the packaging, then that gives them a financial basis to consider taking more risks with products. That in turn may encourage investment into new coating lines (So that they can become their own suppliers) or at the very least encourage them to expand their brand offerings and order products that are actually new to differentiate themselves from their competitors in the field.
 

Ricardo Miranda

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More speculation.
Carry on by all means.
As I posted before, if one sees the package, the DX code and a look at the negative would do wonders to kill rumours.
 

mnemosyne

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More speculation.
Carry on by all means.
As I posted before, if one sees the package, the DX code and a look at the negative would do wonders to kill rumours.

Well, as has been stated above, the box says "Made in the UK". What additional proof do you require to accept that this film is manufactured by Harman? Are there film coating facilities in the UK other than Harman? What additional information you hope to get from the DX code or "a look at the negative"?
 

Ricardo Miranda

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The exact emulsion for a start.
Yes, if it says UK, then it can only be Harman, at least for the time being.
 
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