A new APUG direction...

[Drew B.]

I posted this in another thread:

Ok, here's an idea...why doesn't, at least in the US, each regional group come up with a way to advertise this web site and what it represents. ...a small ad, paid for by the local members, placed in some regional newspaper, and stressing several things (ie. find a photographer in your area, location of (our) workshops (creating revenue for that group) that would be opened up to non-members... and maybe create more members, and last but not least, providing new access to fine art photographs created from around the world (by YOU). Lets come out of the closet! ...and we need to be more vocal about it. I just spoke to a Nantucket photographer about it and hopefully she checks it out (whitey mentioned it to her earlier and I pushed it further by saying "ok, digital for business is fine if you feel it is needed, but you need to create art in your personal life and apug is a way to get connected to this other side!"

I also think we need to either put together some way to give back to our instructors and I think either some money or buy his/her lunch would be great. Also, I think we need to (and I don't want to get TOO organized) pay a small fee at each workshop ($10 for us- $20 for non-members) What do you all think? Maybe.....just maybe, we can save the analog lifestyle we all love!

drew

 

[rbarker]

Local personal promotion of the site is probably a good thing - i.e. spreading the word that film use is alive and well, as evidenced by the number of members here. How "formal" that gets should probably be left up to Sean to provide guidance, however.

From a completely selfish perspective, there's a flip side to the site-promotion coin. Large numbers of additional members translates to a corresponding number of additional posts, making it increasingly difficult to stay on top of the activity. For many people, I suspect there is a point at which the number of posts just becomes too great to manage.

 

[reellis67]

I've talked about APUG with the photography instructor where I work, but she is digital bound, as are the photo students and the people in the art club. I tried the local chapter of the PSA, but they are the largest group of digi-vangelists I've ever met (I think I may be one of the only PSA members who still uses film...)

I've actualy gotten the most interest of non-members by wearing my APUG tee shirt around everywhere I go on the weekends. Every now and then someone comes up and asks I refer them to the web site after chatting for a while - that and using my wooden camera in public.

- Randy

 

[colrehogan]

I talked about photography (after discussing the work related stuff) at numerous booths at a convention I attended in the last couple of weeks.

 

[Bruce Osgood]

So far 11,564 people have found APUG. I'm getting 200 - 300 posts a day that I read about 12 of. More isn't necessarily better.

 

[Andy K]

OOps, posted in the wrong thread!

 

[Baxter Bradford]

So far 11,564 people have found APUG. I'm getting 200 - 300 posts a day that I read about 12 of. More isn't necessarily better.

Me too Bruce

Am not sure if I have reached saturation point, or should I remove any blinkers which I was unaware were fitted or whether the discussion topics are cyclical a sort of photo bio-rhythm and I just need to bide my time.

I haven't decided what strategy is best to clear the backlog, frequent visits (currently the case) or to move to weekly, whereby more important threads might have run their course........ decisions, decisions.

Just made one ------ Off to try to mend the Jobo.

 

[Sean]

I would like to see a lot more development with regional groups and have had big plans to re-vamp this area. Each region should have more than a forum, they should have their own little micro-community complete with member list, president, treasurer, image gallery, calendar, etc. It should be doable now that I will have the time I need to work on the site.

 

[David Brown]

Am not sure if I have reached saturation point, ... or whether the discussion topics are cyclical a sort of photo bio-rhythm ...

(A bit off topic): Locally (North Texas) a few of us have discussed the forums lately regarding the fact that the postings are perhaps cyclical, not unlike articles in a typical photo magazine. Those of us that have read various mags over the years realize that after a certain time, the topics of articles start to re-appear. So it is with the forums. Questions already discussed get asked by newer members, etc. This is not a criticism, just an observation.

(A little more on topic): A few of us have tried to do meet and greets with APUGGERS in North Texas, with some success. I've met at least 8 in the Dallas/Ft. Worth/Denton area (plus scootermm in Austin, an ex officio member of the North Texas crowd), but I know there are more members in the area. We've had some group shoots, and a few of us have even begun a collaboration on a photo project.

I really appreciate actually meeting other apuggers away from the website. It has reinvigorated my own photography! Well worth the effort.

It takes a little work. Most folks have "day jobs". Here's a tip for a get together: include food!

Cheers, y'all - and good luck!

David

 

[SuzanneR]

I would like to see a lot more development with regional groups and have had big plans to re-vamp this area. Each region should have more than a forum, they should have their own little micro-community complete with member list, president, treasurer, image gallery, calendar, etc. It should be doable now that I will have the time I need to work on the site.

Sounds like a great idea, Sean. I love the idea of active regions that can organize say three (maybe four) get togethers each year. Having the get togethers in the form of free, (or very small fees to cover materials) workshops like the one we just had in New England is a great way to energize people about their work, and welcome folks new to film photography.

And as David pointed out, food always helps. Hell, throw in a little beer and wine... live a little!!

 

[david b]

As much as I love this site and want to see it grow, it belongs to Sean, therefore the growth and additional revenue should be his concern and work.

And since the revenue from additional "local" advertising and membership would go to the site and Sean's income, why would I want to pay for it? So I can see more photos and come home to 600 unread messages? I will pass.

No offense to anyone, especially Sean.

 

[manjo]

IMHO

I would like to pay a small fee to the pros who are teaching us at the workshops instead of generating revenue for APUG. Sean should worry abt raising enough money to keep the forum alive, like others have pointed out.

Paying the pros who teach at the workshops sounds like a better idea to me rather than raise revenue for the website. They drive long ways, spend time putting together handouts, and bringing all the eqpt and educate us in these workshops, I would not mind paying a little fee for that.

 

[Ed Sukach]

I would like to see a lot more development with regional groups and have had big plans to re-vamp this area. Each region should have more than a forum, they should have their own little micro-community complete with member list, president, treasurer, image gallery, calendar, etc. It should be doable now that I will have the time I need to work on the site.

I am all in favor. I've attended *one* such regional meeting, and it was a great experience. I tend to get miserably *bogged down* with commitments... I'm going to work my schedule better in the future... and attend more.
One problem we have here, and it probably is not unique to anyone on any web site, is that those with repressed anger seem to thrive on the isolation afforded by a keyboard, an infernal machine and LOTS of distance. It is also a characteristic of some of the more well-balanced types to WANT to stay away from fights... and as a result they tend to remain silent.
It is a *GOOD* thing to meet with others, face to face, and get to know them at a much more ... efficient ... is the word that comes closest... level.
Hooray for non-verbal communication!
...Come to think of it... isn't "non-verbal-ness" one facet of fine art photography?
Anyway, YAY!!! Keep up the good work, Sean.

 

[Ed Sukach]

IMHO

I would like to pay a small fee to the pros who are teaching us at the workshops instead of generating revenue for APUG.

"Instead of"?

Whoa! It would be nice if there were *no expenses* associated with APUG (including Sean's commitment) ... but it just isn't so.

Fine, pay the workshop leaders/ instructors ... but that would require funds "in addition to", not "instead of."

 

[Drew B.]

I thought the people from NE would read this...not the world! Anyways, I'm looking at the whole picture, not just apug. I want to be a part of the turn-around of this digital locomotion. It can be done...very slowly. I think the only people who benefit from digital is wedding photogs and journalists who have to beam back an image from half way around the world for tomorrow's paper. the benefit to digital is instant gratification. Its like fast food...it's not good for you. Prepare a meal correctly, using a good recipe, slowly simmer...this is analog photography. It's just more healthy! Slowness is good...look at the results... the makings of fine art photography.

So, it isn't about apug...but what apug stands for. If someone starts another site like apug, i'll support that also...and promote it, but all for the bigger picture - the survival...No growth of film usage and wet processing products. Ok, enough preaching!

have a great day..or night.

 

[Charles Webb]

I guess I am from another Universe, I have been fortunate to spend my life doing the very things that many folks would have loved to get to do. I had wonderful teachers, and folks to learn from, they then as I do now have no desire to "charge a fee for their information". If I know anything that might make some ones journey into the world of photography easier, I am going to share it. I have no interest or desire in using my experience for monitary gain.
I frankly no longer have a pot to pee in, or a window to throw it out of, but I'll be damned if I will ever charge or expect rembursment for trying to make some one else's road a little less bumpy for them.

I am a bit worried about the rapid growth of APUG, it could very easily become a monster that devours creative people. It has the potential of being many things to many varied photographic interests. This I believe is the "Grabber" for future membership and growth. If APUG continues at the rate it is growing now or even somewhat slower than it is now it could be a very good thing.

My life here on Earth will soon be over, so there is little need for me to worry about the future of film and dark room work or even APUG for that matter but some how I still do. I personally enjoy the APUG Community as it is now, I see little or no need for regional groups or the changes of direction some want to see APUG go. "If it ain't broke dammit quit tryin ta fix it"

Charlie............................................

 

[Bill Hahn]

Some quick points:

(1) I was helping Manjo at the NE APUG workshop this past Saturday, I could be wrong but maybe English isn't his first language, so cut him some slack on the "instead of". Of course, it could be exactly what he meant, but maybe not. (I still remember being humiliated in my German class when I confused the words for "purse" and "handkerchief" - my instructor, a lean Berliner lady, kept saying "O Wirklich?" as I explained how I carried a purse and sneezed into it.)

(2) I hope Manjo wasn't thinking of me when he said "paying the pros who teach", cause I'm not a professional photographer. We had a battle about paying for polaroid film, and I finally accepted his money, because he insisted.

(3) I'm sympathetic to what Charlie said, except for the "no need for regional groups". The people I've met in NE APUG have been great.

(4) I've been trying to write this fourth point for about an hour now without success. By all means we should organize to keep film material available, but I'm not sure that advertising APUG to people doing digital photography is the way. I think the film people will find us without advertising, and the digital people may be hopeless until they develop carpal tunnel syndrome using photoshop or lose 10000 pictures when a hard drive fails. I have a DSLR and have used it to put together slide shows with music on DVDS as a gift. But for my own work, I'll grab a film camera, and god help me, these days I only seem to be interested in pinhole work....

Enough. There is such a thing as over-organization. Let things develop organically.

Bill

 

[Bruce Osgood]

Well, I for one would hate to see APUG de-globalize into regional cells with presidents, treasures and local web galleries. Of the 11,570 members (up 6 from this morning) how many are subscribers that would make up the down sized functioning world of APUG?

 

[david b]

treasurers? why?

 

[Bruce Osgood]

treasurers? why?

From Sean's post: "they should have their own little micro-community complete with member list, president, treasurer, image gallery, calendar, etc. It should be doable now that I will have the time I need to work on the site."

 

[Sean]

Well nothing will be mandatory, I basically wanted to give regional groups the option to develop their group more than just a group forum category by giving them the facility to have a calendar and people in charge of meetings/events if they want to do this. If you have a group of 20 or 30 you might want to pool some funds for local events or to have someone come give a workshop etc (so i mentioned treasurer).

As for growth I think we are growing a little too fast these days with usually over 20 new registrations a day. The rapid growth resulted in me moving to apug full time because I simply couldn't handle apug as a side project. I think 5-10 new signups per day would be a good number but it's not really something I can control. I suppose if things got out of hand and the membership were unhappy we could vote to lock down the site to subscribers only. I think this would have many negative aspects such as shunning 1,000's of film enthusiasts from the site and the cause behind it. I like having our forum content all over the search engines and freely available. I think continued growth is good for our craft and if this many people are signing up a day we'll all be able to shoot film and buy paper for a long time. Showing up every day to 600 new posts may get annoying for some but it's exciting for me, it means traditional photography is still a huge force to be reckoned with and we are alive and kicking

 

[roteague]

Showing up every day to 600 new posts may get annoying for some but it's exciting for me, it means traditional photography is still a huge force to be reckoned with and we are alive and kicking

Ditto..... I agree as well. A large number of posts may be a bother, but one that I am willing to put up with, if it keeps our 'processes' alive.

 

[papagene]

As someone who may be slightly guilty in getting these regional groups started I may as well pipe in about my philosophy:
My first goal was to stop existing as a photographer in a vacuum. I wanted to be able to go out with other like-minded film photographers for shoots or museum/gallery visits or just sitting around looking at prints and talking shop. I wanted to just meet other photographers.
The idea behind this past Saturday's event was photographers teaching photographers that would grow into friends teaching friends. The presenters volunteered their expertise and two of three were from New England and Bob came up from NJ on his own volition.
I feel that each region has some very talented and knowledgeable APUG members and there is no reason to bring in "Names" to teach each other. I believe there is more learning done with friends teaching friends.
In the past year new friendships have been made. This past Sat more new friendships were made and I hope more in the future.
Basically, I would like to keep the regionals more of an informal, free-form entity with a few structured events, partly because I don't have the free time to become involved in another "Organization."
Lets have some fun, get out and photograph and show each other our work!!!!!!!!

gene

 

[david b]

In about two weeks, the New Mexico contingent is getting together for an afternoon of chit-chat and coffee. I am all for this. But do we need a president and a treasurer?

 

[papagene]

David - I don't think so.