A medium format present..

Dinis Figueira · Aug 26, 2016

Hi guys,

As the title suggests, I'm looking a worthy inexpensive medium format camera to offer to my niece.
I've offered a Brownie Box Nº2 to my brother, which he loves, but since my niece uses it more, I feel like I should get something more advanced. Something that won't break my bank since my country is expensive to my salary.

So what are your recommendations?

Dan Daniel · Aug 26, 2016

How about a folder? I am not certain of the model names, often because names in the US and Europe were different. But Agfa, Voigtlander, and Zeiss all made medium format folders.

Or a twin lens reflex is worth a look. Like a Voigtlander Brillant.

The problem you will run into with any of these is condition. Once you move beyond simple box cameras, things become complicated enough to be a problem but not well-made enough to be reliable.

Dinis Figueira · Aug 26, 2016

Dan Daniel said:
How about a folder? I am not certain of the model names, often because names in the US and Europe were different. But Agfa, Voigtlander, and Zeiss all made medium format folders.

Or a twin lens reflex is worth a look. Like a Voigtlander Brillant.

The problem you will run into with any of these is condition. Once you move beyond simple box cameras, things become complicated enough to be a problem but not well-made enough to be reliable.

I've saw the folding ones, but the mighty problem is focusing. It would be hard to guess focus or even with the accessory.
Or at least, I have the idea that would be hard for her.

Vaughn · Aug 26, 2016

An older TLR would be cool. Unfortunately, the one I have in mind is American, so I do not know if the Ciroflex (or its later incarnation, the Graflex 22) would be easy to find in Europe.

frank · Aug 26, 2016

If low cost is an important criterion, then scale focusing is the way to get to medium format.

GRHazelton · Aug 26, 2016

I'd suggest being certain that your criteria include the use of 120 film, since 620 is essentially unavailable. But I'm sure you knew that!

baachitraka · Aug 26, 2016

- Zeiss Ikon Nettar: Novar lens with Prontor-S shutter.
- Agfa Isolette: Apotar lens with Prontor-S shutter.

You can get a watameter but it may be redundant in most of the situations.

* Zeiss folders are good for their bellows and the focusing unit may be fluent compared to Agfa's where in it is either frozen or sluggish.

Dinis Figueira · Aug 26, 2016

GRHazelton said:
I'd suggest being certain that your criteria include the use of 120 film, since 620 is essentially unavailable. But I'm sure you knew that!

Yup, I did my homework

Zeiss Ikon get's pretty expensive here (even thought I would like to snatch one for myself).

Scale focusing is a good idea, but that will burn a lot of film..

frank · Aug 26, 2016

Learn about DOF and zone focus.

Or spend more money and buy a camera with a rangefinder or reflex focus.

Dinis Figueira · Aug 26, 2016

frank said:
Learn about DOF and zone focus.

Or spend more money and buy a camera with a rangefinder or reflex focus.

Even thought I could go for a zone focus camera, I think it would confuse my niece and discourage her on this area. (she's young)

frank · Aug 26, 2016

So why a medium format camera for a young person?

M Carter · Aug 26, 2016

You could possibly get lucky on a complete Mamiya RB setup, lots of them show up with 90mm lens and a back. EBay usually has many, and usually lots of nice ones from Japan. Shipping to the US is usually $20-$40.

There are also the various 645 cameras... maybe best if you found a complete setup vs. piecemeal.

The Pentax 67 is pretty wicked too, though they seemed to have bottomed in price a while back and are now coming back up. A girl with a P67 would feel like a superhero.

I'd love to have a rangefinder folder myself, but good ones are pricey and many are very, very old, so finding an affordable one with a clean lens and working mechanics could be an issue. There is a ton of writing about them online though, you can go down quite a research rabbit-hole.

I'd think about whether a folder or a "system" camera, where she could build a lens kit, would suit her.

choiliefan · Aug 26, 2016

Sounds like you need a Zeiss-Ikon Box Tengor. Fairly inexpensive, simple yet well built and fun to shoot.

pbromaghin · Aug 26, 2016

First, what do you consider inexpensive? That will narrow the range of recommendations considerably.

klownshed · Aug 26, 2016

A Lubitel 166 would be inexpensive...

They can be surprisingly good. If you get a good one...

stool · Aug 26, 2016

Its available, its just pricey at $10 a roll. Dead Link Removed
I'd just grab a nice isolette from jurgen at certo6.com, if you can swing $150 a yashica D or 124 can probably he hunted down on ebay too.

GRHazelton said:
I'd suggest being certain that your criteria include the use of 120 film, since 620 is essentially unavailable. But I'm sure you knew that!

Vaughn · Aug 26, 2016

pbromaghin said:
First, what do you consider inexpensive? That will narrow the range of recommendations considerably.

'Stepping up' from a Brownie might be a clue... ;o)

The Ciroflex (and Graflex22) focus like any normal TLR...just no bells/whistles and very simple cameras -- perfect for the desired use. A search on EBay fround many completed sales for $50 or less.

howardpan · Aug 26, 2016

My first medium format camera was a Pentax 645NII which I bought a few years ago for less than USD 200. I think a used Fuji rangefinder can also be purchased for 200-300 dollars.

pbromaghin · Aug 26, 2016

How about a Zeiss folder with a Novar lens and an uncoupled rangefinder? That avoids the zone focusing difficulty and the expense of a SuperIkonta. Maybe 175-200 U$D.

Slixtiesix · Aug 26, 2016

Agfa Isola II. You should have no problem finding one in decent shape for way less than 10 Euro. Only has two shutter speeds, otherwise a very fine camera.

LAG · Aug 26, 2016

Dinis Figueira said:
I've offered a Brownie Box Nº2 to my brother, which he loves, but since my niece uses it more, I feel like I should get something more advanced. Something that won't break my bank ...

So what are your recommendations?

Excuse me Dinis Figueira

If I can be frank with you, maybe it's your "feeling" what you should change, and not the camera. Let her learn with that Kodak, go and show her what she can achieve with that impressive box! The best recommendation is teaching her that the difference between one Photographer and other doesn't lie on the camera.

Changing the format, the way to use the finder or the way to hold it, could be reasons enough to make a change, in that case Agfa Isola I, 6x6, viewfinder, double-exposure prevention, three focusing distances, two shutter position, three diaphragm position, two shutter modes ... Simple, lightweight and cheap, could be my suggest.

Good luck!

Malinku · Aug 26, 2016

Super Ricohflex would be a good choice. I got mine for under $20 and love it. It has gear focusing which can get stiff but easy to fix.
The lens and shutter are really great.

I'll sell ya mine for $35 if your interested.

mike c · Aug 26, 2016

Yashica or Rolliecord twin lens would work.

jvo · Aug 26, 2016

yashicamat 124 - and there's probably one for sale in apug classifieds!

Dinis Figueira · Aug 26, 2016

I appreciate everything you have all posted here.

To answer some questions.

Why medium format? Quality to print. And cheap film (friends).
Whats the budget? Something that wouldn't hurt me since I'm giving a camera to a 8 years old kid. This includes many kids checking the camera if she takes the camera to school.
Why the step up? I think it would be nice to maker her learn more. With more speeds, there are more possibilities. It's more like, presenting her the basic notions of aperture and speed coupled together.
About TLR's (which I already have been looking for), I am afraid that would confuse being a Waist level finder. And since the mirror is always "in the open", it might get broken easily.

Everything outside of Europe is expensive for me. Why? The shipping usually goes around 20€. That is, if the package isn't stopped at the border for a check up. If that happens, let the taxes flow in..

About the camera. The afga isola, mentioned many times, would be a good step up right? A few more options but nothing too much.

Again, thank you for all the suggestions. Apug community being awesome as always

A medium format present..

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