A market for handcoated/small batch silver chloride paper?

Photo Engineer · Apr 30, 2008

How much would you pay for a sheet of 8x10 grade 2 or grade 3 DW paper that closely duplicated Azo paper?

PE

Moderator's note--this thread was split off from another thread about Lodima Fine Art paper.--d.g.

dwross · Apr 30, 2008

Photo Engineer said:
How much would you pay for a sheet of 8x10 grade 2 or grade 3 DW paper that closely duplicated Azo paper?

PE

Or, for a minimum investment in time and money, you could make your own paper and not be constrained by the marketplace or other people's whims. When Michael's and Paula's paper comes along, you can celebrate one more tool in the box, but in the meantime, you have control of your own art.

Denise Ross
http://www.thelightfarm.com/Map/ContactPaperDev/MapTopic.htm

Photo Engineer · Apr 30, 2008

Denise;

I agree, but with either method you pay and that is what I want to find out. For example, how much for a liter of emulsion to coat your own, how much for precoated, how much to learn... etc.

PE

ilya1963 · Apr 30, 2008

Can you make it work at around a buck a sheet?

ILYA

dwross · Apr 30, 2008

Ron,

I fully support your personal interest/investment in market research.

In the meantime I will continue to emphasize, especially to folks who may be new to the conversation, that no one has to wait for a product to be delivered up to them. Wanting to wait is another matter. I'm aware that not everyone is do-it-yourself. Photo finish labs would attest to that. But, anyone visiting APUG for the first time must be made aware that they are not victims of capricious market forces.

d

Photo Engineer · Apr 30, 2008

Denise;

People are aware, from my comments and Alex Hawley's tests, that a contact paper is within reach, so I'm trying to get more information on a different tack. Thats all. I do agree with you though.

Ilya;

The cheapest uncoated baryta paper in 8x10 will be about $0.60 / sheet or thereabouts. So no, it can't be a dollar a sheet. This is especially true due to the current price of silver, and the fact that such a paper would be a custom made niche product. But you have given me some thought.

Mass produced papers such as Ilford are nearly $1 / sheet at most photo sources.

PE

Stephanie Brim · Apr 30, 2008

I'd expect closer to $2-$3, and, if I contact printed a lot of 8x10-11x14 images I'd probably pay it. Good thing I can't afford more than 4x5.

On that note...

I think I'm going to like 4x5 contact prints. The small images are very nice, sharp, and clear, especially when printing an uncluttered scene. I wish there was some way that 4x5 contact paper could also be made. I understand that I can cut down 8x10, by the way, and that's what I plan to do now.

ilya1963 · Apr 30, 2008

It takes me between three to 5 sheets of paper to get a print I can live with , I have paid as much as 500 for a box of 500 sheets of Azo , that is what I was basing this on

I would like to try your paper to see if it is something I could work with at a high price...I'd pay for the trial run , but keep in mind I need a lot of paper , I mean a lot , when I work i do not look back and have missed that freedom ...

ILYA

mcfactor · Apr 30, 2008

I have never tried silver chloride paper berfore, i would pay between $2-3 a sheet to try.

Jim Fitzgerald · Apr 30, 2008

Ron I think that the 2-3 dollar a sheet range sounds about right. I have no idea if this is right or not. Been to busy building cameras to follow closely. I would be interested. I have about 500 sheets of old G-2 and 400 sheets of new in 8x10. The real gem is the 250 sheets of 11x14 I have. Need some 8x20 as others have said. Whatever M&P come up with it is going to be expensive due to the falling dollar. So be it. I love printing in daylight! Seems like it with the Thomas wide open.

Jim

Photo Engineer · May 1, 2008

How about custom sizes?

10x20, 5x10,.........

How about custom support?

Cream, Ivory, Silk, Canvas, Ultra heavy weight.........

PE

ilya1963 · May 1, 2008

HI Ron,

For me properties of the emullsion are the most important , the rest is secondary

I only work with 8x10

If there was one thing that i would lovr to try different that would be Matte Azo in different grade , they did used to make it .

ILYA

jgjbowen · May 3, 2008

Photo Engineer said:
How about custom sizes?

10x20, 5x10,.........

How about custom support?

Cream, Ivory, Silk, Canvas, Ultra heavy weight.........

PE

Ron,

8x20 would be nice. It could be used for 8x20, 7x17 or cut in half for 8x10, cut down for 5x8 etc.

I would also be interested in 14x17. I shoot 8x10 & 7x17, so I could cut 14x17 in half.

Glossy surface for me. I understand it would be custom made and therefore expensive, but when the film is $8/sheet, I wouldn't mind spending some $$ for a nice paper to print the "keepers" on.

Craig · May 4, 2008

Photo Engineer said:
How about custom support?

Cream, Ivory, Silk, Canvas, Ultra heavy weight.........

PE

Speaking of heavy weight, I'd just love to have Kodak Elite back again.....

rcoda · May 6, 2008

Craig said:
Speaking of heavy weight, I'd just love to have Kodak Elite back again.....

Me too... I just scored 1300 sheets of it. Has a little fog but nothing that can't be handled.

Photo Engineer · May 6, 2008

Thanks for the information on cost. I need more information on support types though. I think that mention of any of any papers other than Azo types are off topic and I have no answer for them. My efforts are directed at Azo types and Kodabromide/Brovira types.

PE

Kirk Keyes · May 6, 2008

PE - you should start a new thread, instead of being buried down here 129 posts deep.

David A. Goldfarb · May 6, 2008

Just checking over at the B&H website, graded fiber papers by the 100-sheet 8x10" box range from about 80 cents to $1.30 a sheet, and as another point of reference, Harman Gloss FB AI baryta inkjet paper, which doesn't even have any silver on it is $1.40 an 8.5x11" sheet. Centennial POP is also about $1.40 a sheet. Based on that $2-3 a sheet sounds about right for a handmade paper. If you're doing this in any kind of quantity, I'd think the main limiting factor is going to be drying space.

Stephanie Brim · May 6, 2008

Ron, I'd buy pre-cut 4x5 just because it would be more time consuming for me to cut up 8x10. With a small baby the convenience would be worth the price.

domaz · May 6, 2008

I would definetly try it for $2-4 a sheet. I would use it for (gasp) digital contact printing mainly.

ilya1963 · May 7, 2008

Have you deleted the other thread ?

I can't seem to find it

ILYA

ilya1963 · May 7, 2008

I found it , but my replies have despaired

ILYA

Ian Grant · May 7, 2008

ILYA I think you mean you despair because your replies have disappeared D:

As Ron indicates making the emulsion is not a problem at all. It's more about getting it coated.

Sometimes we think too hi-tech, when you look at the quality of the early silver gelatin papers you also have to remember the coating machinery was not very sophisticated. If you've seen Browning's photo's of the EFKE plant you'll understand what I mean.

Ian

David A. Goldfarb · May 7, 2008

ilya1963 said:
I found it , but my replies have despaired

ILYA

If your replies were relevant to this question, I've moved them to this thread. If they were related to Lodima, I've left them in the other thread.

ilya1963 · May 7, 2008

Yes, that's it

Thanks, Ian

What I need is a slow chloride byrita paper and lots of it to continue my search for a holy grail

Three years has past since the anouncment of the paper beeing gone and we still have nothing close to it

I don't mind waiting for a quality paper but I don't want to die before I get it ,that is my despair .

now I am desappearing

ILYA

A market for handcoated/small batch silver chloride paper?

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