A lot of newbee questions about 4x5

Hi,

I am planning in buying a new (and first) monorail 4x5. I was thinking about the Linhof Kardan RE. Why I don't want to go used? Because I bought all my cameras used, and I would like to have a new one, that I will use, that will bear using marks made by me etc. I know it's a psychological caprice....

I compared with Toyo and Cambo entry-level cameras, and it looks like the linhof is better desingned. It seems also relatively small and light. This being said I am not a pro about these things

Do anyone have experience with this particular model?

-Is the back revolving, can you shoot both landscape and portrait?

-Schneider or Rodenstock lenses?

-150mm or 180mm,? I would like to have plenty of movements.

Where to find a polaroid back that takes fuji instant peel-apart film? It seems that both are discontinuated.

How does it fit on a tripod??? It seems stupid but I can't figure it out!

Is there any necessary and really usefull accessories except the usual ones?


Any advice will be appreciated!

Kris

Seems as good a place to start as any. Pictures of this camera for some reason don't usually show the rail clamp, but that is how the rail attaches to the tripod. Looking over at the Linhof website the "tripod base" is sold separately from the camera body, so be sure you get one.

I don't know for sure, but the back is probably reversible--it should come off and be replaceable in either the vertical or horizontal position, rather than rotating in place.

Schneider and Rodenstock both make excellent lenses.

You'll have more movements with a 180 than a 150 in general (some 150's may have a larger image circle than some 180's), but 150 is a more popular choice as a normal lens.

The Fuji PA-45 back and I think the Polaroid 550 take 4x5" pack film like the Fuji pack film.

If you ask about this camera on the lfphoto.info Q&A forum, Bob Salomon, the US Linhof rep, is very likely to have up to date answers to any questions you might have about Linhof products.

kristopher_lawrence said:

Because I bought all my cameras used, and I would like to have a new one, that I will use, that will bear using marks made by me etc. I know it's a psychological caprice....

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I can understand that. But are you saying this is your first ever LF camera?

Not sure it makes sense to compare an entry Cambo to a Linhof. Doesn't Cambo make some budget cameras aimed at the student market?

Some of your questions are very basic which leads me to guess you're just starting out. If that's true I'd suggest getting something cheap and cheerful to learn on first. You may hate a monorail and end up wanting a field. Or you may want a different format.

kristopher_lawrence said:

Hi,

I am planning in buying a new (and first) monorail 4x5. I was thinking about the Linhof Kardan RE. Why I don't want to go used? Because I bought all my cameras used, and I would like to have a new one, that I will use, that will bear using marks made by me etc. I know it's a psychological caprice....

I compared with Toyo and Cambo entry-level cameras, and it looks like the linhof is better desingned. It seems also relatively small and light. This being said I am not a pro about these things

Do anyone have experience with this particular model?

-Is the back revolving, can you shoot both landscape and portrait?

-Schneider or Rodenstock lenses?

-150mm or 180mm,? I would like to have plenty of movements.

How does it fit on a tripod??? It seems stupid but I can't figure it out!

Is there any necessary and really usefull accessories except the usual ones?

Click to expand...

I have a slightly older model, though essentially the same. It certainly isn't either small or light! The back doesn't revolve as such but can be taken off and replaced at 90 degrees, so yes you can do portrait or landscape (but no odd angles in between).

Schneider, Rodenstock, Nikon or Fuji. All produce (or produced) fine LF lenses. Worry about the age and condition of the lens rather than the maker. 150mm are more common – and thus likely to be cheaper S/H.

The new Linhofs with the square-ish section rail do not use clamps: there are two threaded holes (1/4" and 3/8") in the underside of the rail for the tripod screw.

Useful accessories? Bag bellows if you intend to get a wide angle lens. Some people like compendium lens shades – though I'm not one of them. Better to buy a load more dark slides. Don't forget to buy a lens board for each lens...

Happy shooting. It's a superbly built, if not particularly sophisticated, camera.



Richard

Some questions for you:
Do you plan of shooting color or B&W or both?
Are you shooting exclusively in a studio or out the trunk of your car, or will you be taking your kit on hikes as well?
How much are you budgeting for this acquisition?

RE your new vs. used issues, I think the psyche is more likely to be stoked by when you see that first 4x5 negative come out of the soup than by anything else!

I am with John on this one. I have bought two, yes two, new cameras. A Minolta XD11 and a Nikon FM2. The new camera exhilaration lasted about 40 seconds each................

Want to waste your money? Buy a new Linhof Kardan or fill in the blank....

Then wait a year or so and sell it to me at a 70% discount.

The best camera I have purchased?

1957 Deardorff 8x10. It's 2 months younger than me.

Shakes head....

Take a step back and think about what you want to accomplish, not what it takes to get you there.

Now think about what it takes to get you there.

Where does "NEW" fit into this equation?

tim in san jose

Thank you all for your kind answer.

I will try to give more infos.

1-I plan to do both color and B&W, for color I will use ektachrome.

2-I am really not a landscape guy, I don't plan to hike around with the camera. I will certainly use it for some architectural shots in the city, but I plan do use it mainly in studio for various uses, portrait, conceptual shots and art copying. Slides will be scanned, and BW darkroom printed.

As for the comparision with cambo, the Linhof RE is an "entry-level" it sells for 1900$ at B&H. While, the basic Cambo sells for 1300$ and they seem at the very opposite of quality specs for an entry level LF. for 600$ more, the Linhof seems to be the best buy.

Why a Linhof? and Why new? Well I will tell you a story: When I got interested in photography I started with digital then ditched my DSLR after seeing the results of a Yashicaflex TLR. I wanted to buy one, I endend up with a Rolleiflex (50% of my most amazing work was done with this beauty!) for a good price. Then, I wanted a rangefinder for portability and fast lenses (I ruled out the SLRs because I CAN'T STAND NOT SEEING WHEN THE PICTURE IS TAKEN!!!) My father who was a photog in the 50's 60's, told me: «wait, spare some money and go for a leica, you'll end up buying one one day or another» I did this and I am proud of it, I never looked back. Leica's are great but their tiny negs are well... tiny. And since I have one, I am proud to tell people they are not necessarely the best cameras for everything and they are confused since I cannot be jaelous...

The same thing stand for a LF camera, «wait, you'll end up buying a Linhof one day or another...»

However, I am not a gearhead, I don't collect cameras, and I don't shoot test charts. I use them a lot for what they are best for. I am almost exclusively shooting normal lenses and it seems that all other focal lenghts are not for me, thats my vision.

As far as the used stuff goes, I don't like to buy on the internet (e*ay), and dealers in Ottawa-Montreal don't have this kind of stuff, and if they do, their prices are too high.

One last thing, I really HATE not well built goods, that are filmsy and/or don't work well as they are inteded to.

However, I am still opened to other possibilities, and any further advice will be appreciated!

Thanks a lot,

Kris

I've owned three Linhofs (two 13x18 Technikas and a 4x5" Color), and now own none.

For 5x7" I use a Gandolfi or an antique German plate camera, for 4x5" I use a Speed Graphic or a Carbon Infinity (all right - or another Gandolfi). Anything larger and I have a good selection of different antique plate cameras, but really prefer the - 8x10" Gandolfi.

Sinar.

You're right about Canadian prices. Harry's and Vistek in Toronto both carry various LF cameras.

Cambo used to sell a student camera at Calumet. I think about $500 or 600?

If you're willing to spend $2k plenty of choices. I think most of us will tell you the camera is the least of equation. If you're shooting only 4x5 I'd rather a Calumet CC-401 for a $100 and $1900 in lenses then $2k on a Linhof.

I'll tell you a secret... Throwing around a couple grand here and there, it soon turns into real money.. (Sorry Everett Dirkson).

I took the plunge and spent 1600 bucks on my 8x10 Deardorff. But that included an 8x10 back, 4x5 back, 190WF Ektar (needed a CLA), a 12" Ektar, the lens boards, splitters for the 8x10 back, and the box. I went and found a 5x7 back for a couple hundred more. And yes, I sent 1600.00 to someone I have never met on EBay. It IS a leap of faith.

Stunning camera. Some scratches on the woodwork, but nothing is bent, nothing torn... I will never buy another camera. Just remember, a camera is just a black box. The Linhof gets no darker than a Speed Graphic.

One note... "I CAN'T STAND NOT SEEING WHEN THE PICTURE IS TAKEN!!!"

Have you ever used a LF camera before?


Hey Mister... wanna buy a B&J 5x7 Grover? Fell off the back of a truck. *L*


tim in san jose

There are tons of good used monorails around for killer prices. IMHO your better off being thrifty on the camera and spending the money on glass. You can always upgrade the camera. It's the glass and your brain that does the heavy lifting. In small format world I'm amazed at the people who spend a jillion dollars for a body, and then hang an $80 5.6-11 24-9000mm Jujixto Telezoomer on it.

If money is no object go right for the Linhof, why not?

k_jupiter said:

One note... "I CAN'T STAND NOT SEEING WHEN THE PICTURE IS TAKEN!!!"

Have you ever used a LF camera before?

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I don't know about you, but I find it very relaxing to look at my subject (whatever it is, landscape, portrait) while tripping the shutter and standing next to my LF camera... ... certainly after having my head dunked beneath a dark cloth for 10 minutes trying to focus a scene at low light.

Marco B said:

I don't know about you, but I find it very relaxing to look at my subject (whatever it is, landscape, portrait) while tripping the shutter and standing next to my LF camera... ... certainly after having my head dunked beneath a dark cloth for 10 minutes trying to focus a scene at low light.

Click to expand...

But of course. I am not the one with the phobia about not see exactly what happens the 1/60 of a second the image is being captured.

tim in san jose

As Jbrunner says, sort of. It's the glass what does the pitcher taken. The camera's a box that holds the film.
If you want the new Linhof that's fine but what are you going to do for a lens? If you also decide you want a new lens that can also run $1 or $2k.
You also need to consider what else you need with the Linhof to make it workable. Like the tripod mount & lens board. Tripod & head, darkcloth, cable release, focusing loupe, compendium etc.
So the $1900 camera is actually $3 or $4k.
I'd look for a used Linhof or Sinar with some accessories that you wouldn't get with a new camera.

k_jupiter said:

But of course. I am not the one with the phobia about not see exactly what happens the 1/60 of a second the image is being captured.

tim in san jose

Click to expand...

Well, as you certainly know, with 4x5 cameras, (except the fotoman type) you don't have choice, so yes I am aware.... But still, when I have the choice I prefer to see what happens and, for LF, you look at the subject sitting on the side of the camera when releasing the shutter....

So you guys are kind of convincing me. I know that the lenses are what matter the most, so should I get a Shen Hao and high end schneider/rodenstock lenses? And yes I don't mind going up to 4000$ for the total outfit.

If you buy a Shen Hao or Tachihara or any other type of wooden viewcamera, you will have the benefit of `choice` of going out with it and even hike with it. Maybe you will never do it, but from most of the stories of studiotype rail cameras (Sinar, Cambo) I read here on APUG, you will soon regret trying to take them outdoors. Only a very few die hards do that with that type of camera...

I am pretty sure you won't regret such a choice for a Shen Hao or other portable camera. They're fun! (I have a Tachihara)

SO, getting back to my point...

Find yerself a 5x7 Deardorff with front swings, portable when you need it to be, rock solid for studio work. Why 5x7? Cause you might just find you like that format, and 5x7 is contact printable. Put a great 210 lens on it for your 4x5 portrait work, find a 300mm lens for your 5x7 portrait shots. Get a good solid tripod and you are still well south of 2500 USD.

You will find the engineering lives up to your expectations, every control is where it should be. It's classy, it's dependable, it will let you expand where you want to go photographically.

I'll still sell you a 5x7 Grover with 4x5 back cheap if you want.

tim in san jose

I'm with Tim on this one. A 'dorff is a great camera and certainly capable for architecture (Hedrick Blessing used them) and portraits (more 'togs than you can shake a stick at used them) and landscapes (once again...) and you can still find them for far less than what new woodies are going for. If a field camera is what you're after they are certainly worth looking at.

They certainly aren't the only choice, but they are a very good choice!

Older "pro" monorails like the Calumet 400 series and Graphic Views are real bargains right now (often way less than $200) so consider them as well.

A Few Thoughts

Spend some time on the Badger Graphics web site, and I think you'll see a lot of options that fit within your budget.

For about what you want to spend I have bought several cameras and a great number of lenses... all used. Since I have been in and out of large format photography 4 times in the last 40 years, I've used most everything there is at one time or another.

Where would I start if I were you? Either a Deardorff 4x5 Special, or an Ebony. Both can be had for about $1,500 in very nice condition.

Then really have some fun trying a few lenses. I'm partial to Nikons and Ektars. But everyone has their favorites. For portraits and studio as your primary interest look at a 210mm or 8-1/2" inch lens as a place to start.

You'll want a really solid tripod (find a used commercial studio type model) and a very good light meter (may make some sense to buy "new" here).

The equipment I suggest will always be popular enough that if you later decide you want something different you can sell it for what you paid for it.

I have always had good luck buying from highly rated sellers on E-Bay, from Midwest Photo Exchange in Columbus, from Badger, and from Calumet.

One thing that I have tried to standardize on is the use of Technika type lens boards. That makes all my lenses and cameras interchangeable. If you go the Deardorff route you can buy a Technika adapter, or choose to use the 4in Square Deardorff lens board as your standard.

I understand the desire to have new but in LF the camera is nothing more than a bellows to hold a lens and film. If it had lots of delicate moving parts like a MF or 35mm I would be more concerned about new. I purchased my first field camera new but every other LF camera (over a dozen) was purchased used for pennies on the dollar. I have sold several Toyo 45Es for $100 to $150 and they will do anything a Linhoff will do. For a full movement camera at little cost it is hard to beat a Toyo 45D. A G, GII or GX will give you full features for 1/4 the cost of a new Linhoff. To me that is a new lens or two and lot of film.

k_jupiter said:

Take a step back and think about what you want to accomplish, not what it takes to get you there.

Now think about what it takes to get you there.

Where does "NEW" fit into this equation?

tim in san jose

Click to expand...

Some excellent advice here. I wish somebody had beaten this into me a few years ago...