A great video on Ed Weston

Mainecoonmaniac · Aug 28, 2017

I studied Weston in college over 30 years ago. In my college photo classes, we were taught how important the Zone System was and we learned every minutiae if film and paper. When I graduated Photoshop came to the forefront a few years later and all that knowledge became useless in the practical world.

Weston, film and the Zone System are only for true photo nerds.

https://petapixel.com/2017/08/26/go-inside-darkroom-legendary-photographer-edward-weston/

jvo · Aug 28, 2017

hmmm... the zone system is certainly useful for the film photographer, and also for some digital photography. You can certainly take wonderful digital images without it. it would be most appropriate to adjust f-stops and shutter speeds almost exclusively so that you could easily do so when the zone system is really needed - a very anti-digital concept, i believe.

Mainecoonmaniac · Aug 28, 2017

jvo said:
hmmm... the zone system is certainly useful for the film photographer, and also for some digital photography. You can certainly take wonderful digital images without it. it would be most appropriate to adjust f-stops and shutter speeds almost exclusively so that you could easily do so when the zone system is really needed - a very anti-digital concept, i believe.

I'm not anti-digital at all. The most useful part of the Zone System is previsualization which is applicable to digital and analog photography. But previsualization is not so use useful with digital photography which allows chimping and the use of HDR. With analog as well as digital photography, some are too wrapped up into the mechanics and not concentrating on the artistic aspects of photography in general.

Rick A · Aug 28, 2017

I've always admired the Weston family, starting with Ed. His philosophy toward producing a perfect negative as well as life itself suits me.

Mainecoonmaniac · Aug 28, 2017

Rick A said:
I've always admired the Weston family, starting with Ed. His philosophy toward producing a perfect negative as well as life itself suits me.

Me too. But I always fall short of doing producing that perfect neg. Within the past couple of years, I've tried again to use a safelight to develop my film. It's a pretty amazing process that I still have yet to master. I got my first introduction while I was an undergrad. But a good neg makes printing easier and makes the print more beautiful.

jvo · Aug 28, 2017

Mainecoonmaniac said:
I'm not anti-digital at all. The most useful part of the Zone System is previsualization..... which is applicable to digital and analog photography. But previsualization is not so use useful with digital photography which allows chimping and the use of HDR. With analog as well as digital photography, some are too wrapped up into the mechanics and not concentrating on the artistic aspects of photography in general.

ah, yes that true... i suspect that too many digi-photogs know what they want and keep hitting too many buttons and choices . yes they chimp and keep trying to "get it" or, take another attempt in -post.

(i really shouldn't be speculating here like this, i've never owned/used a digital camera! reader beware!)

jvo

Mainecoonmaniac · Aug 28, 2017

jvo said:
ah, yes that true... i suspect that too many digi-photogs know what they want and keep hitting too many buttons and choices . yes they chimp and keep trying to "get it" or, take another attempt in -post.

(i really shouldn't be speculating here like this, i've never owned/used a digital camera! reader beware!)

jvo

So you're anti-digital

moose10101 · Aug 28, 2017

Mainecoonmaniac said:
I'm not anti-digital at all. The most useful part of the Zone System is previsualization which is applicable to digital and analog photography. But previsualization is not so use useful with digital photography which allows chimping and the use of HDR. With analog as well as digital photography, some are too wrapped up into the mechanics and not concentrating on the artistic aspects of photography in general.

Digital photographers should still be "previsualizing" (or is it just "visualizing"?). Once they decide what they want from the exposure, chimping is just a quick way to see if they got it. It shouldn't short-circuit the creative process.

Digital also eliminates the biggest obstacle 35mm photographers face with the ZS: the inability to process each exposure on a roll independently.

Mainecoonmaniac · Aug 28, 2017

moose10101 said:
Digital photographers should still be "previsualizing" (or is it just "visualizing"?). Once they decide what they want from the exposure, chimping is just a quick way to see if they got it. It shouldn't short-circuit the creative process.

Digital also eliminates the biggest obstacle 35mm photographers face with the ZS: the inability to process each exposure on a roll independently.

Chimping=revisualizing

I'm guilty of it too.

MattKing · Aug 28, 2017

moose10101 said:
Digital photographers should still be "previsualizing" (or is it just "visualizing"?).

It is visualization if you are an Ansel Adams fan, and pre-visualization if you are a Minor White devotee.

doughowk · Aug 28, 2017

Have most of the books and videos of Ed & Brett; but this one was new to me. Thanks for the link.

Logan Becker · Aug 28, 2017

Mainecoonmaniac said:
Me too. But I always fall short of doing producing that perfect neg. Within the past couple of years, I've tried again to use a safelight to develop my film. It's a pretty amazing process that I still have yet to master. I got my first introduction while I was an undergrad. But a good neg makes printing easier and makes the print more beautiful.

What filter do you use when inspecting the film?

jvo · Aug 28, 2017

Mainecoonmaniac said:
So you're anti-digital

not really... just know what i enjoy, (the process), and my weaknesses.

if i could capture image with 50 clicks, i probably would - particularly if i was earning my living through photography. since i don't rely on it for a living, i enjoy the suspense of "seeing that i got it." i think digital is great, just not for me at this point.

p.s. in the future, please leave my aunt out of it

Mainecoonmaniac · Aug 29, 2017

Logan Becker said:
What filter do you use when inspecting the film?

I bought the safelight on Ebay. It has a very dim bulb and dark green. I think it's Kodak #3. Keep in mind it's not like a paper safelight where it's on constantly. I only turn it on when I inspect the film then I turn it off when I'm done. I place the safelight about 4-5' from my darkroom sink. I was worried about fogging ASA 400 film when I used it, but it won't if you do it right. I only inspect the film about the last 5 minutes of development. I just inspect the denser highlights part of the film. Take a look at this very informative article.
http://www.michaelandpaula.com/mp/devinsp.html

Cheers!

TheRook · Aug 30, 2017

The Zone System is certainly not useless in digital photography. In fact, its application can help make you a more efficient digital photographer - less chimping by more often getting the exposure right with the first shot. And an efficient photographer is less likely to suffer from camera fatigue.

Bob Carnie · Aug 30, 2017

What I find the original footage quite perfect to our current state of imaging..

Small Darkroom, Single Bulb for exposure, Single contact Frame. I am making 8x10 film for a woman in Montreal and she is making 8 x10 Carbon Transfer prints, I am also making film for workers in very limited space by taking their digital
files and making negatives.

Simple difference from what I can see from this footage and now( 60-80 years of photography in between) is that Edward was capturing images with a large film base camera and direct dodging and burning on the print through exposure, and now workers are using
every sort of device from cameras to I phones to capture images, and dodging and burning in PS and then making direct prints.

Nothing is new , and time does repeat itself.

darkroommike · Aug 30, 2017

The term is "visualize", "pre-visualize" is more Zen System than Zone System and was advanced by Minor White, Saint Ansel (all hail Ansel) never used the term "pre-visualize".

Weston made a short documentary movie for the Navy during WW2. And Weston did not use the Zone System.

darkroommike · Aug 30, 2017

Rick A said:
I've always admired the Weston family, starting with Ed. His philosophy toward producing a perfect negative as well as life itself suits me.

The Weston family were all what we would now term eccentric, colorful characters.

A great video on Ed Weston

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