a good primer for a new to film customer wanting to process B&W film?

Smudger · Dec 28, 2017

Youtube is full of helpful idiots - can anyone suggest a thoughtful video that is worthwhile for a "new to film" hopeful ?
(It is not me). Something that explains the loading differences between metal and plastic reels,for example.

Kevin Caulfield · Dec 28, 2017

I suggest you look at the Ilford and Kodak websites.

rpavich · Dec 28, 2017

Smudger said:
Youtube is full of helpful idiots - can anyone suggest a thoughtful video that is worthwhile for a "new to film" hopeful ?
(It is not me). Something that explains the loading differences between metal and plastic reels,for example.

I think you'd be better off choosing specific resources for specific information. In my experience, no one video or blog post or even site has all that you need at one time.

I look at it like this; you search youtube when you have a specific problem to solve, then move on and don't worry about it until you have another specific problem to solve, and start again.

If they don't know anything at all about what to do or how to do it, then I'd suggest solving the problem of how to load film, set the camera, and shoot the images.

After they've done that, then solve the problem of what to do next; what tank to get and why, and how to develop film.

There are lots of resources but nothing centralized in a step-by-step fashion that covers exactly what a person needs to know.

btaylor · Dec 28, 2017

For a dollar or two you can usually pick up an old Kodak book on beginning darkroom work. I always found them to be very well written and illustrated. On loading reels, a PDF of an instruction booklet from one of the manufacturers might be helpful. Then if you get stuck on something one of the "helpful idiots" of YouTube may come to the rescue. It's all about the doing though, dive in and have a go.

pentaxuser · Dec 28, 2017

If it is the "what steps to successfully process" you want then read the film manufacturers' sheets such as can be found on the Ilford site. If it is how to load reels just practice with a sacrificed roll until you can comfortably load it each time in the dark. If it is whether to use steel or plastic reels, pre-wash or not, follow Kodak or Ilford's agitation regime etc then read everything here on Photrio and have a go. You will have to leave the practice for about 2 years of solid reading and then take another 6 months to make your mind up about which advice to accept.

Seriously, just practice as suggested above and follow the manufacturer's process and times. Learn by doing. There is a lot of good advice but you can so easily find yourself in the same situation as Bob Hope in "Son of Paleface" when he gets advice on how to beat the gunslinger that has challenged him to a gunfight. It's worth a look on You Tube just to keep things in perspective

pentaxuser

Neal · Dec 28, 2017

Dear Smudger,

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/category/learning-zone/

https://www.digitaltruth.com/products/data.php?type=tech&brand=kodak

Welcome and good luck,

Neal Wydra

trendland · Dec 28, 2017

In the very past grandpas and grandmas gave needfull information to each new generation. But to that time information has not a quick change of issues. The Egyptian were the pioneers of modernest methods to make sure information came precisely to clients of more than one generation. But they have a need of so much stone therefore.
After this Gutenberg decided to find a new medium.
That was state of the art to many people then.
But now it is a little boring - isn't it (to read a book) ?
What a pity - Gutenberg wasn't a you tube star ?
So if you find good information via video
instructions - it is just nice - WHY NOT ?
(hope you will not forget how to read)

BUT WHAT IS TO DO NOWADYS IF THERE ARE NO COMPETENT VIDEOS FROM THE NET.
ASK A FORUM FOR COMPETENT YOU TUBE CONTENT?

with regards

PS : Perhaps this is the time to you to find a library.

PPS : The best youtube channels I know gave advices like : 10 thinks you shouldn't do with films - for example: Don't switch the Iso speed of your camera when a film is loaded.
BECAUSE YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE SPEED OF YOUR LOADED FILMS !
Whow - thats indeed very informative..

David Brown · Dec 28, 2017

I teach beginning darkroom. There seems to be no other single obstacle to success greater than learning to load film reels! And the only way to overcome this is practice. And more practice in many cases. Once that is mastered, simply following the directions for processing is close to fool-proof. (Not totally, but "close")

Beyond that, consult the Kodak and Ilford source materials (as mentioned already) and then read a book! Seriously, for under $5 you can get a good basic text that will cover everything. It won't be a video, sorry.

I have all of this sorted for you:

http://silverdarkroom.net/?page_id=549

trendland · Dec 28, 2017

Smudger said:
Youtube is full of helpful idiots - can anyone suggest a thoughtful video that is worthwhile for a "new to film" hopeful ?
(It is not me). Something that explains the loading differences between metal and plastic reels,for example.

But - before forgetting to say - comming to your question :
The difference of reals isn't from material
it is much more from your experience with reals.
So if your choice is to the best stainless steel (expensive) real - it might be others won't give them a chance because of long time experience with cheapest (ugly) plastics reals.
And to transfer information to a new buddy - the best is to show how it works.
Because the issue with reals is often indescribable via instruction.

with regards

Saganich · Dec 28, 2017

Best to search topic by topic as they are disclosed as being problematic. For example: I started with metal reels and I almost quit film I was having so much trouble with them. So I read that metal reels tend to bend when you drop them making them impossible to use...bummer...so I switched to plastic reels...I doubt I was successful in loading one tank before I threw them out. Some swear by them but I never got the hang of using them. So I switched back to metal reels and just bought a bunch of new reels every few years. Then I discovered Hews reels, which are thicker and don't bend easily but are expensive. I bought 6 of those about 10 years ago and haven't had one problem since. Feel free to generalize this experience to any of the numerous topics; photography will be a "learn as you go" experience whether you think you gave good advice or not.

trendland · Dec 28, 2017

David Brown said:
I teach beginning darkroom. There seems to be no other single obstacle to success greater than learning to load film reels! And the only way to overcome this is practice. And more practice in many cases. Once that is mastered, simply following the directions for processing is close to fool-proof. (Not totally, but "close")

Beyond that, consult the Kodak and Ilford source materials (as mentioned already) and then read a book! Seriously, for under $5 you can get a good basic text that will cover everything. It won't be a video, sorry.

I have all of this sorted for you:

http://silverdarkroom.net/?page_id=549

.....
1. lession - dry film/dry real
2. " " /real with smal rests of humidity
3. lession dry film/real with some drops of last final wash
4. lession little humidity on the film/wet real
5. lession wet film/wet real
6. lession 220 film wet condition/wet real
7. lession 2 x 120 wet film/wet real
AFTER THIS : MISSION ACOMPLISHED
(just to how learn the urgend need of avoid humidity on reals)

with regards

Wallendo · Dec 28, 2017

I originally learned to load film on a reel in junior high school in 1975. Over the next 35 years I forgot most of it, but was able to learn again using YouTube. For me, the key was to watch a lot of different videos until I found one that made sense to me. I really wish there was a website geared to beginners, however. When I first started developing film 5-6 years ago, I kept putting it off as I read so many conflicting descriptions of how to do it, but finally found a few links that made sense to me.

trendland · Dec 28, 2017

Saganich said:
Best to search topic by topic as they are disclosed as being problematic. For example: I started with metal reels and I almost quit film I was having so much trouble with them. So I read that metal reels tend to bend when you drop them making them impossible to use...bummer...so I switched to plastic reels...I doubt I was successful in loading one tank before I threw them out. Some swear by them but I never got the hang of using them. So I switched back to metal reels and just bought a bunch of new reels every few years. Then I discovered Hews reels, which are thicker and don't bend easily but are expensive. I bought 6 of those about 10 years ago and haven't had one problem since. Feel free to generalize this experience to any of the numerous topics; photography will be a "learn as you go" experience whether you think you gave good advice or not.

What? Saganich ...WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?
HOW MANY EXPENSIVE EQUIPMENT DID YOU NEED ???

I bought one Kaiser drum with that mentioned ugly plastic real. 1977 !!!
Before 2008 I just did not know that there are others than from plastic.
But I have had bad luck 2014 - my Kaiser drum dissapeared.
So I have a new one now.
(pls. don't waste so much resources and money! )

with regards

PS : 1977 everything was possible :
135 films/120 films/220films/16mmfilms (may be also 110 pocket I did it not but I could imagine it should work also)

bvy · Dec 28, 2017

David Brown said:
I teach beginning darkroom. There seems to be no other single obstacle to success greater than learning to load film reels! And the only way to overcome this is practice. And more practice in many cases. Once that is mastered, simply following the directions for processing is close to fool-proof. (Not totally, but "close

Well, it's not like playing piano. It's quite possible to master loading a Paterson (plastic) reel in a matter of minutes. With practice comes comfort, of course, and I'm sure some folks will have more trouble than others. But I'd hate for this to put someone off.

mjork · Dec 28, 2017

I got started simply by following the beginner info on the Ilford Web site.

tedr1 · Dec 28, 2017

This book for beginners might come in handy, they are available used on amazon and elsewhere for a few dollars

Horenstein: Black and White Photography

https://www.amazon.com/Black-White-...50&sr=1-1&keywords=horenstein+black+and+white

Gerald C Koch · Dec 29, 2017

tedr1 said:
This book for beginners might come in handy, they are available used on amazon and elsewhere for a few dollars

Horenstein: Black and White Photography

https://www.amazon.com/Black-White-...50&sr=1-1&keywords=horenstein+black+and+white

+1
Once you can leave off the training wheels I would suggest getting a copy of Ansel Adam's The Negative. This book will take up where the beginner books leave off. If you intent to do printing then also pick up The Print. Both books are invaluable.

David Brown · Dec 29, 2017

bvy said:
Well, it's not like playing piano. It's quite possible to master loading a Paterson (plastic) reel in a matter of minutes. With practice comes comfort, of course, and I'm sure some folks will have more trouble than others. But I'd hate for this to put someone off.

You're absolutely right. It always totally amazes me how much time is spent (by some. again, not all) on mastering loading reels. Either plastic or steel. I am like you, and learned to do either in a relatively short time. I think it's more of a mental block than an actual difficulty, but the fact is that every time I teach beginning classes, or even individual instruction, learning to load the reels can take an inordinate amount of time.

BradS · Dec 29, 2017

tedr1 said:
This book for beginners might come in handy, they are available used on amazon and elsewhere for a few dollars

Horenstein: Black and White Photography

https://www.amazon.com/Black-White-...50&sr=1-1&keywords=horenstein+black+and+white

YES! this is how we used to learn stuff.....by reading books! This is a good one, there are others.

Sirius Glass · Dec 29, 2017

tedr1 said:
This book for beginners might come in handy, they are available used on amazon and elsewhere for a few dollars

Horenstein: Black and White Photography

https://www.amazon.com/Black-White-...50&sr=1-1&keywords=horenstein+black+and+white

+1

klaus3428 · Jan 2, 2018

One of the few things I remember from being taught loading reels, metal or plastic:
- round off the corners of the film start, ok involves using scissors in the dark, but makes loading so much easier
- sacrifice some film to practice on, ok costs money but pays you back in negatives without scratches or finger smudges
- ensure reels are dry, if in doubt a blast of warm air from a hair dryer works wonders
- avoid metal reels!

ic-racer · Jan 2, 2018

Yes, as others who teach for a living have suggested, buy a book on the subject.
There used to be some PDF books available on the internet, but links I know are not broken.

trendland · Jan 2, 2018

klaus3428 said:
One of the few things I remember from being taught loading reels, metal or plastic:
- round off the corners of the film start, ok involves using scissors in the dark, but makes loading so much easier
- sacrifice some film to practice on, ok costs money but pays you back in negatives without scratches or finger smudges
- ensure reels are dry, if in doubt a blast of warm air from a hair dryer works wonders
- avoid metal reels!

Just out of interest klaus - are you wearing coton gloves when you load your reel ?
Thats a good example - it is (often) recomanded ? I realy don't remember for sure. I also have to state : I can't remember ever have read a book !
Ok there might have been some - but definitively NO SINGLE BOOK ABOUT PHOTOGRAPHY !
But it make sence to use coton gloves.
We all shall know this ...but who is using it ? Nobody - am I right ?
AND that should be ok ? Indeed it should be.....
So do you agree that it is sometimes better to make own experience ?
In conflict cases theory should help - sometimes.
But with best theory methods is is allways NO Guarantee to become a good
photographer.
With painfull practice and many fail the chances are much better.
But sometimes a book is nice - not to help - but to control if the issues you have taught to yourself are the same some photography authors are knowing also meanwhile.
With exeptions - I just remember Steve Anchell - thats an exeption of heavy competence I would not arrogate to find out from own practice.
Wow - so I have a book ? Didn't realize ..?
Ahh. ....just forgetting it is a pdf - ok then everything is fine.

with regards

Sirius Glass · Jan 2, 2018

klaus3428 said:
One of the few things I remember from being taught loading reels, metal or plastic:
- round off the corners of the film start, ok involves using scissors in the dark, but makes loading so much easier
- sacrifice some film to practice on, ok costs money but pays you back in negatives without scratches or finger smudges
- ensure reels are dry, if in doubt a blast of warm air from a hair dryer works wonders
- avoid metal reels!

Round off the corners is good for 35mm and 120 film.

klaus3428 · Jan 3, 2018

trendland said:
Just out of interest klaus - are you wearing coton gloves when you load your reel ?

Never worn gloves with 35 or 120 file, just with 5x4 sheets as they suffer easily from fingermarks, scratches and dust.

Regarding books, in the pre-internet age I just borrowed one or two books from the library, can't remember any specific titles, a lot of the knowledge I picked during courses, listening and through exercises, i.e. getting film into reels etc.,

a good primer for a new to film customer wanting to process B&W film?

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