A good concert 35mm compact camera?

Stuarrt · Mar 30, 2017

Hey guys! Second post of the day.
So, I'm in need of a compact camera for an indoor concert.
It has to be small enough to slip in my pocket in order to sneak it in.

Looking for:
Zoom lens if possible
Pocketable
Large aperture
And something that will last me awhile, as I do plan on using it afterwards.

Budget- don't really want to go past $850 CAD

I've been looking at the Contax T series, although I am a bit put off at the idea of it getting bricked randomly due to them being electronic. Are they worth the hefty price? The Hexar AF also looks pretty nice

Any suggestions would be great!

Ko.Fe. · Mar 30, 2017

Are you sure you have to sneak it in? I could hardly imagine any concert in Canada where you are not allowed to take it on your mobile. Small camera never seems to be a problem and here might be no reason to hide it. If you are trying to sneak it in and here is restriction, they will see you taking pictures and ask you to stop.

850CAD just for concert pictures? You are doing great on the West Coast!

I'm afraid, you are not going to find film compact camera with large aperture zoom. Contax T is nothing but over-priced Minox 35, IMO. With Minox 35 "reliability". You could get exactly the same 35 2.8 with Olympus XA, very small camera, with normal price and better than Contax T build. I purchased mine in Vancouver BC, BTW. It is gone now due to the similar to all of small film compacts with electrons life span issues.
Another option is to find older serviced RF camera with faster prime on it. Something with 40 1.7 lens. Most practical solution is to get something like Oly OM10 with 50 1.4. It is small kit to fit in the jacket pocket and it will give great results with ISO400 film pushed @1600. If you like Hexar AF, you could check more common Bessa R with LTM 50 1.5 Nokton or 35 1.7 LTM Ultron.

klownshed · Mar 30, 2017

Stuarrt said:
Looking for:
Zoom lens if possible
Pocketable
Large aperture

You won't get a pocketable large aperture, compact zoom.

An Olympus mju ii fits all but the zoom requirements but has an f2.8 35mm lens (similar to the Contax), so a bit on the short side unless you're right up front. But it's longer than the lens on an iPhone which seems to be the de facto gig camera these days. They're tiny and very good and sharp but are starting to get very expensive for what they are.

A mju 1 is as cheap as chips but loses 2/3 stop with it's f3.5 35mm lens.

The mju-ii zoom 115 has a zoom lens but it's very slow, especially at the long end. It is pocketable though!

Other 'quality' compacts tended towards wider lenses such as the Richoh GR1 with 28mm f2.8 lens or the Fuji Natura that had an f1.9 24mm (and both cost a lot of money now).

Bigger cameras like the Olympus IS-1000 had a 35-135 zoom but was only f4.5 to 5.6 and is far from pocketable.

A small rangefinder such as the Olympus 35RC are an alternative, with an f2.8 42mm lens but they're much less compact than, say, the Mju ii or the XA that Ko.Fe mentioned.

The XA is a bit fiddly for use in a concert though, it might be tricky to see the rangefinder patch clearly enough for accurate focus in poor light. An XA-2 is an f3.5 35mm, the same sized shell and uses three-part zone focussing but no manual override as it's auto only. Another thing to bear in mind is most of the compacts don't go up to ISO 1600 for their auto exposure. The XA and XA-2 for example go up to ISO 800. The mju ii goes up to ISO 3200 but I think that's with DX coding only, so you'd need to use Delta 3200 or change the code with a sticker to push, say, HP5+ to 1600 or higher.

Unfortunately you won't find exactly what you want as it never existed. You need a big lens for it to be fast and long and to cover 35mm frame size.

There were some 110 cameras that had long, fast lenses but you're stuck with tiny 110 film which is hard to find and harder to develop and print. And would look crap at high ISO too .

Ko.Fe. said:
Most practical solution is to get something like Oly OM10 with 50 1.4. It is small kit to fit in the jacket pocket and it will give great results with ISO400 film pushed @1600.

Yeah, I'd go with something like that too. An OM-20 adds manual operation without the widget, but I'd be happy with a 50mm f1.8. It's smaller and lighter than the 1.4 and sharper (or as sharp) wide open. I'd put the camera in one pocket and the lens in another.

tedr1 · Mar 30, 2017

It may be there is something helpful in this recent thread on a similar subject (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Stuarrt · Mar 30, 2017

Ko.Fe. said:
Are you sure you have to sneak it in? I could hardly imagine any concert in Canada where you are not allowed to take it on your mobile. Small camera never seems to be a problem and here might be no reason to hide it. If you are trying to sneak it in and here is restriction, they will see you taking pictures and ask you to stop.

850CAD just for concert pictures? You are doing great on the West Coast!

I'm fairly certain. I contacted Rogers Arena and they told me any photography of any kind (phones included) are prohibited for this concert. So they'll be quickly taking a glance in our bags and what not. Usually small cameras aren't a problem. You just can't take a camera with a detachable lens, or a lens that exceeds 70mm.

Well, it's not JUST for concert pictures. My 18th birthday is coming up in a few days so I figured I'd treat my self to something nice. I would of liked a contax, but I had my suspicions that they were overpriced. What was their price originally in the 90s?
I'll look at the Olympus OM10. Would pushing the film give better results than if I were to just buy 1600 ISO film?

Stuarrt · Mar 30, 2017

Has anyone had the Canon AF35ML f1.9?

Stuarrt · Mar 30, 2017

klownshed said:
You won't get a pocketable large aperture, compact zoom.

An Olympus mju ii fits all but the zoom requirements but has an f2.8 35mm lens (similar to the Contax), so a bit on the short side unless you're right up front. But it's longer than the lens on an iPhone which seems to be the de facto gig camera these days. They're tiny and very good and sharp but are starting to get very expensive for what they are.

A mju 1 is as cheap as chips but loses 2/3 stop with it's f3.5 35mm lens.

The mju-ii zoom 115 has a zoom lens but it's very slow, especially at the long end. It is pocketable though!

Other 'quality' compacts tended towards wider lenses such as the Richoh GR1 with 28mm f2.8 lens or the Fuji Natura that had an f1.9 24mm (and both cost a lot of money now).

Bigger cameras like the Olympus IS-1000 had a 35-135 zoom but was only f4.5 to 5.6 and is far from pocketable.

A small rangefinder such as the Olympus 35RC are an alternative, with an f2.8 42mm lens but they're much less compact than, say, the Mju ii or the XA that Ko.Fe mentioned.

The XA is a bit fiddly for use in a concert though, it might be tricky to see the rangefinder patch clearly enough for accurate focus in poor light. An XA-2 is an f3.5 35mm, the same sized shell and uses three-part zone focussing but no manual override as it's auto only. Another thing to bear in mind is most of the compacts don't go up to ISO 1600 for their auto exposure. The XA and XA-2 for example go up to ISO 800. The mju ii goes up to ISO 3200 but I think that's with DX coding only, so you'd need to use Delta 3200 or change the code with a sticker to push, say, HP5+ to 1600 or higher.

Unfortunately you won't find exactly what you want as it never existed. You need a big lens for it to be fast and long and to cover 35mm frame size.

There were some 110 cameras that had long, fast lenses but you're stuck with tiny 110 film which is hard to find and harder to develop and print. And would look crap at high ISO too .

Yeah, I'd go with something like that too. An OM-20 adds manual operation without the widget, but I'd be happy with a 50mm f1.8. It's smaller and lighter than the 1.4 and sharper (or as sharp) wide open. I'd put the camera in one pocket and the lens in another.

The mju II does look good, but like you said it is pretty expensive for what it is. I might get lucky and stumble upon one in a thrift store.
The GR1 is something I was looking at, but similar to the T2 I was kind of put off about the idea of it randomly dying on me. Then I'll have a very expensive brick. The Natura was a a favorite of mine (looking at how well it preformed in low light)
What about the canon sureshot supreme? It looks like it has a very similar lens as the Olympus mju ii.
The OM10 or 20 does seem quite nice (and cheap).

klownshed · Mar 30, 2017

Stuarrt said:
I'll look at the Olympus OM10

As you said the venue will check and won't allow detachable lens cameras, that would rule out the OM-10.

With that in mind, The cameras you mentioned (and the mju -ii, which is properly tiny) are good choices in terms of being small and discreet. They're also premium compacts and very good quality.

Yes the electronics are an issue. When the electronics fail you have a paperweight. The 35RC is a mechanical rangefinder but quite a bit bigger than a mju-ii.

They also have wide-ish lenses. What focal length did you need?

You will want to avoid a flash and therefore fast film is the way to go. You can get Fuji Superior in ISO1600 but fast colour film can be unpleasantly grainy compared to B&W where the grain can be lovely. Ilford make a 3200 speed film (which people will argue is really only 1250!)

The mju ii is the smallest large aperture compact and for that reason probably the best for your needs as it will fit in your trouser pocket easily. As long as 35mm focal length is long enough.

Whatever you get, practice in as similar conditions as you can first. It's not easy in that kind of light with film.

pbromaghin · Mar 30, 2017

My wife had an Olympus Stylus with something like 35-115mm zoom. It was astonishingly good and not much bigger than a pack of cigarettes when closed up. They take ordinary AA batteries and you should be able to find one for $25-50. Not sure if you can turn the flash off in low light, though.

Edit: Heck, what am I saying? On second thought, you could probably get a decent one for $5. They made several different ones over the years with a variety of fixed and zoom lenses.

Stuarrt · Mar 30, 2017

klownshed said:
As you said the venue will check and won't allow detachable lens cameras, that would rule out the OM-10.

With that in mind, The cameras you mentioned (and the mju -ii, which is properly tiny) are good choices in terms of being small and discreet. They're also premium compacts and very good quality.

Yes the electronics are an issue. When the electronics fail you have a paperweight. The 35RC is a mechanical rangefinder but quite a bit bigger than a mju-ii.

They also have wide-ish lenses. What focal length did you need?

You will want to avoid a flash and therefore fast film is the way to go. You can get Fuji Superior in ISO1600 but fast colour film can be unpleasantly grainy compared to B&W where the grain can be lovely. Ilford make a 3200 speed film (which people will argue is really only 1250!)

The mju ii is the smallest large aperture compact and for that reason probably the best for your needs as it will fit in your trouser pocket easily. As long as 35mm focal length is long enough.

Whatever you get, practice in as similar conditions as you can first. It's not easy in that kind of light with film.

Well, I could always do what you suggested and put the lens in a separate place than than the camera body and hope they don't notice.
The Olympus 35RC also looks quite nice judging by the flickr page. I was hoping for around 50mm, but in reality I'd take something 35mm-ish.
What about yashica t3 vs The Mju II?

Stuarrt · Mar 30, 2017

pbromaghin said:
My wife had an Olympus Stylus with something like 35-115mm zoom. It was astonishingly good and not much bigger than a pack of cigarettes when closed up. They take ordinary AA batteries and you should be able to find one for $25-50. Not sure if you can turn the flash off in low light, though.

Edit: Heck, what am I saying? On second thought, you could probably get a decent one for $5. They made several different ones over the years with a variety of fixed and zoom lenses.

I saw that when I was looking for a camera with zoom capabilities. Only downside is that (i think) it has like a f/4.5-9.8 lens which I don't think would do very well in a very low light situation.

OptiKen · Mar 30, 2017

I use the Olympus LT Zoom 105. Very small with a fast lens and zoom (plus panorama option). It takes great pictures and has held up very well to abuse. As a plus, it's 'weather proof' (splash and rain)
Extra bonus - they run about $25 USD on eBay.

New (old stock) around $80

pentaxuser · Mar 30, 2017

Just bear in mind that the mju auto-reads the DX code on the film, unless you alter the film DX coding to fool the camera. You can get code stickers that allow you to do this. This may not be important for a concert's lighting where shadows are often featureless anyway but it means that if you put Ilford D3200 into the camera, you shoot at 3200 whereas D3200 can be better at 1600 where shadow detail has some chance of appearing.

If you do your own processing and it has to be 3200 then I'd get Microphen for developing. I have just seen that you speak of getting 1600 film which indicates you will be using DX coded colour film. If so then you won't need to fool the camera

pentaxuser

klownshed · Mar 30, 2017

Stuarrt said:
The Olympus 35RC also looks quite nice judging by the flickr page. I was hoping for around 50mm, but in reality I'd take something 35mm-ish.
What about yashica t3 vs The Mju II?

I've not used a T3 but there are plenty of reviews online. Looks like the T3 is a step up from the Olympus in terms of build quality and original price. But lens wise you'll find many people that think the Zuiko lens is a match for the Yashica's Zeiss.

The 35RC has a 42mm lens. But whilst it's very small for a 35mm rangefinder with f2.8 lens, it's still bulky and heavy compared to the mju and you might as well just use an OM-10/OM-20 which are much cheaper and with lens detached just as easy to carry.

And for the price of an OM-10+50mm F1.8 you could take that and a mju-ii/similar compact with different films. If they confiscate the Om you'd still have the mju.

But as with all used cameras, it depends what you find available.

Every camera mentioned above is capable of good results. Some will take more practice than others, but ultimately personal preference plays a huge part.

You're the one using it, which do you think will work for you?

I have a mju-ii (now deceased!) and a 35RC, and OM-10 and I know which I'd take to a concert where cameras are not tolerated. If it weren't deceased. ;-)

Bobkins · Mar 30, 2017

I use Olympus Stylus 35 -150 rarely
but prefer XA2

Huss · Mar 30, 2017

Minolta CLE in one pocket. Voigtlander CV 40 1.4 in the other.

emayoh · Mar 30, 2017

Do you have floor seats / GA? If you're photographing in Rogers Arena from the regular seats, you won't get any photos of the stage where you can see anything unless you go longer than 200mm. At 50mm you'll still need to be practically front row.

Also remember this, and I speak from experience. "Official Venue policy" and what the working Staff at any show actually know/allow have never in my experience been the same thing. It can vary even between entrances. If you don't have a photo credential, don't bring the camera unless you are fine with a) abandoning it or b) going back to your vehicle to stow it. No matter what any one person tells you beforehand, the staff at the door may not agree. Keeping consistent on camera policy across all hired staff is not in any way important to them. Be prepared.

Good luck and have fun,

Mick

MattKing · Mar 30, 2017

Enjoy the show, and don't worry about photographs.
Unless you are in the first three rows.
Rogers Arena isn't a great place to learn how to use film photography at a show.
Cel phone cameras should be fine for your "this is what the crowd and stage looked like" shots.
I used to go to lots of shows in hockey arenas. I never took a camera, unless I had press credentials.

Stuarrt · Mar 30, 2017

I was really only hoping to achieve the "this is what the crowd and stage looked like" shots. Nothing more. They usually have some pretty good theatricals going on in the background (lasers, etc) so I figured I'd try to get a few shots. Using my phone is somewhat out of the question. I have an old samsung from like 09 so I don't think it's very capable.
My grandma ended up giving me her old Canon sure shot

So I'll probably just bring that. I'll also won't be paranoid that they'll take it away and for something to happen to it.

but, I'd still like a premium P&S camera just for leisure. So, any new suggestions or do all of your original ones still stand? I have been looking more and more into the mju ii. It does appear to be a very nice camera.

Ko.Fe. · Mar 31, 2017

Stuarrt said:
I'm fairly certain. I contacted Rogers Arena and they told me any photography of any kind (phones included) are prohibited for this concert. So they'll be quickly taking a glance in our bags and what not. Usually small cameras aren't a problem. You just can't take a camera with a detachable lens, or a lens that exceeds 70mm.

Well, it's not JUST for concert pictures. My 18th birthday is coming up in a few days so I figured I'd treat my self to something nice. I would of liked a contax, but I had my suspicions that they were overpriced. What was their price originally in the 90s?
I'll look at the Olympus OM10. Would pushing the film give better results than if I were to just buy 1600 ISO film?

Aghrr, those at Rogers are Arena full of greedy pirates!
I highly recommend to google Contax T. To me RFF thread come out and it has drama in it. Big money spent to buy, time and money spent for service and it didn't take long for abandonment of this Contax T ship. Contax T is not overpriced, it is under-build.

If you like to take it all and have it for sometime not just for the time you are eighteen, get Olympus or Nikon SLR with fast fifty. Or get busted and get Leica M2, M3 and Canon 50 1.8 LTM lens. It is possible to fit in 800, but USD. Those at Rogers will see it and let you in. It is so beautiful. At least, I'm always let in at Rogers arena here and some over arenas. Do you know they made Leicas in Canada and lenses as well? I have M4-2 (common Canadain) and M3 ELC (not so common and known)

I don't buy ISO1600-3200 film, I'm buying 400 film in bulk and pushing it @1200-1600 or pulling @200. Because I need film not for just one concert....

avb · Mar 31, 2017

I went through researching this recently. A camera that closely fits your description is the Rollei QZ.
QZ T has a 38-90mm f/2.8-5.6
QZ W has a 28-60mm f/2.8-5.6

There are also the Contax TVS series cameras
TVS has a 28-56mm f/3.5-6.5
TVSII has a 28-56mm f/3.5-6.5
TVSIII has a 30-60mm f/3.7-6.7

I think using them for a concert would be quite difficult but good luck if you go that way!

I ended up buying a Nikon F5 and 50mm f/1.4D instead. Not pocketable!

Craig75 · Mar 31, 2017

Id second a contax tvs. Way cheaper than a contax t, brutal lens, will go up to iso3200, and really nice to hold and use. I only have a iii but they ii looks the better model to me. A 60mm zoom @ f6.5 even at 3200 is still going to be a big struggle tho both in terms of framing stage and light levels

pentaxuser · Mar 31, 2017

The mju is quite a bit smaller than the Canon Sureshot. All other things being equal then smaller is usually better. You can't fit B&W filters directly but holding a filter over the lens wouldn't be a problem.

pentaxuser

bdial · Mar 31, 2017

A Minox 35 would be a good candidate, smaller than most P&S cameras. The Rollei 35 is about the same size.
Or a Kodak Retina which is slightly bigger but has an f/2 lens. Any of the three will fit in a pocket easily. Leaf shutters and manual film advance so they are very quiet. The Retina is much heavier than the Minox or Rollei though.

John Wiegerink · Apr 1, 2017

bdial said:
A Minox 35 would be a good candidate, smaller than most P&S cameras. The Rollei 35 is about the same size.
Or a Kodak Retina which is slightly bigger but has an f/2 lens. Any of the three will fit in a pocket easily. Leaf shutters and manual film advance so they are very quiet. The Retina is much heavier than the Minox or Rollei though.

I love my Minox 35's (when they are working) and think they take real good pictures. The lenses focal length might not be long enough for this job. Unless,of course, you are on stage with the performer?

A good concert 35mm compact camera?

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