A few questions about the Hasselblad FlexBody

icarus86 · Jun 1, 2018

Hello,

I've been reading these forums for a couple of years now, since I first considered getting back to using film.
Last year I got a good-condition 503CX together with an 2.8/80 CF, an 4/50 CF FLE and an 4/180 CF. I'm more than happy with this combination.
Recently I picked up a FlexBody which I intend to use with the same lenses. I have a few questions, though, and I'd appreciate your answers a lot!

1. Why is there a 4x5 frame crop "insert" provided with the FlexBody system? Can't I use the whole 6x6 area, with in the limitations provided by the Hasselblad documentation? (e.g. maximum amount of tilt/shift accepted for each lens)
2. What is the exact purpose of the 10-degree and 20-degree inserts? Are they intended for better focusing or... ? What are the implications if these inserts are a bit... well... worn-off?
3. Sometimes I'd wish that my 80mm was a bit longer but I cannot, for the sake of it, justify the costs involved for selling it and buying an 3.5/100 CF. Still, I understood that the 100mm allows some additional tilt/shift on the FlexBody when compared to the 80mm. What's your general opinion? I already read several "80-vs-100" threads around here, but I'm still not convinced whether it's worth getting the 100mm over the 80mm or not.

Some additional info:
I usually shoot the lenses wide-open and up to around f/11.
I usually use Ilford B&W film, ISO 125 and ISO 400. Sometimes I experiment with other film manufacturers/speeds.
I *never* use colour film.
I scan the negatives myself, import them into Adobe Lightroom and continue from there.

Many thanks in advance for your help and advice!
P.S. Sorry for by bad English - it's not my mother tongue.

Oren Grad · Jun 1, 2018

While we are waiting for someone with first-hand experience to respond, the FlexBody instruction manual has answers to some of your questions:

http://hasselbladhistorical.eu/PDF/HasManuals/Flexbody.pdf

Sirius Glass · Jun 1, 2018

I too have the 503 CX and love it. I also have the 50mm, 80mm, 100mm, 150mm, 250mm CF lenses and the 500mm C lens which was so cheap that I could not pass it up. I also have the 2XE so I can make the 500mm into 1,000mm. I passed up the 30mm several times since I do not like taking photographs of the tops of my shoes. And really the 30mm is too specialized and I would rarely use it. Additionally I have the 903 SWC, it ids rectilinearly correct and I love it. The 100mm lens is much sharper than the 80mm lens and it is my favorite now. At times it is a little on the long side. Also it is so sharp that you do not want to use it for a woman's portrait, use the 80mm instead.

The 60mm is too close to the 80mm so buy the 50mm instead.

The 150mm is too close to the 250mm and I rarely use it.

The 10° and 20° inserts are for tilting the lens to change the focus and focus plane. You need to do some reading on swings and tilts.

For travel in Europe I take the SWC, 50mm lens and the 80mm lens.

Your English is good, better than some native speakers. Do not fly too close to the Sun.

John Koehrer · Jun 1, 2018

Wouldn't the 100 also give a slightly greater working distance?

fdonadio · Jun 1, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
I passed up the 30mm several times since I do not like taking photographs of the tops of my shoes.

I already told you so, but here I go again: you will regret it.

Sirius Glass · Jun 1, 2018

fdonadio said:
I already told you so, but here I go again: you will regret it.

I have not yet and the first one offered to me was in 2010.

fdonadio · Jun 1, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
I have not yet and the first one offered to me was in 2010.

I won’t offer you the one I got. Never, ever. It’s mine, all mine!

Arthurwg · Jun 1, 2018

Icarus: Very interesting. I've been thinking about buying this kit as it is so well made and functional, but I'm not sure what I would do with it. What will you be photographing?

Sirius Glass · Jun 1, 2018

fdonadio said:
I won’t offer you the one I got. Never, ever. It’s mine, all mine!

Keep it. It has a better home with you. I very very rarely see a need for it. I have other cameras that I do not use.

Sirius Glass · Jun 1, 2018

Arthurwg said:
Icarus: Very interesting. I've been thinking about buying this kit as it is so well made and functional, but I'm not sure what I would do with it. What will you be photographing?

Architectural photographs where the camera is aimed up and one wants to remove convergence. Also the one time one wants to take a photograph of a mirror straight on without appearing in it.

fdonadio · Jun 1, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
Keep it. It has a better home with you. I very very rarely see a need for it. I have other cameras that I do not use.

Do I feel some envy in your words?

icarus86 · Jun 2, 2018

Many thanks for your replies!

Sirius Glass said:
Architectural photographs where the camera is aimed up and one wants to remove convergence. Also the one time one wants to take a photograph of a mirror straight on without appearing in it.

Actually I'm less interested in controlling the perspective distortion, but rather more interested in controlling the depth of field. As I said, I tend to shoot my lenses wide open, whenever possible.
This is one more reason for me to get the 100mm in lieu of the 80mm, since I understood that when used wide-open, the better optics in the 100mm are to be noticed.

Getting back to the main topic though, the FlexBody, I'm still not sure why the 4x5 "insert" is there. If I take the finder off in order to attach the film magazine, I will expose an area of 6x6, won't I?
I already downloaded the PDF manual and I got the printed user manual with the body - the two are *not* the same. Still a bit confused...

itsdoable · Jun 2, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
Architectural photographs where the camera is aimed up and one wants to remove convergence. Also the one time one wants to take a photograph of a mirror straight on without appearing in it.

Architectural photography was more the realm of the ArcBody, the FlexBody was more geared towards table top product photography where tilt was used to control your plan of focus. You really could not shift the standard hasselblad lenses much. The ArcBody's dedicated lenses allowed extensive shift.

6x4.5 insert was for the 6x4.5 film back. If you were shooting product that required a rectangular crop, and was using the 645 film back, then this insert let you frame properly.

The 10 & 20 deg inserts had offset fresnels to compensate for the offset lens axis, and redirect the light from the focus screen to the eye, making it brighter and easier to focus.

Neil Poulsen · Jun 2, 2018

When I had an old 2.25 square Bronica, I liked having both the 75mm normal lens and a 100mm lens. 2.25 square negatives are so small, one needs to use as much of the film real-estate as possible. Multiple lenses enable this.

Ditto, I would have liked to have had a 60mm lens to bridge the gap between my 50mm and 75mm lenses. But, Bronica didn't offer this option. Hasselblad provides this option, and in my opinion, it's for a good reason.

Sirius Glass · Jun 2, 2018

fdonadio said:
Do I feel some envy in your words?

NO, the envy is only in your mind.

Oren Grad · Jun 2, 2018

icarus86 said:
Getting back to the main topic though, the FlexBody, I'm still not sure why the 4x5 "insert" is there. If I take the finder off in order to attach the film magazine, I will expose an area of 6x6, won't I?

From the manual pdf that I linked:

2. Format mask 4x5 cm. Used both as a compositional aid and as a film mask to avoid vignetting. It is advisable to ensure that the mask has been inserted when the shift facility is to be used and especially when using lenses of focal lengths from 40mm - 60mm, inclusive.

In other words: (1) Some people like to crop to a 4:5 ratio and will appreciate a mask to aid in visualizing that precisely, and (2) Some of the lenses will vignette when you shift them, so you should be prepared for the likelihood that you will need to crop even if you don't normally do so.

icarus86 · Jun 2, 2018

Oren Grad said:
From the manual pdf that I linked:

2. Format mask 4x5 cm. Used both as a compositional aid and as a film mask to avoid vignetting. It is advisable to ensure that the mask has been inserted when the shift facility is to be used and especially when using lenses of focal lengths from 40mm - 60mm, inclusive.

In other words: (1) Some people like to crop to a 4:5 ratio and will appreciate a mask to aid in visualizing that precisely, and (2) Some of the lenses will vignette when you shift them, so you should be prepared for the likelihood that you will need to crop even if you don't normally do so.

Many thanks @Oren Grad for the explanation
My understanding was that, as long as I stay within the maximum tilt/shift amounts specified, there won't be any vignetting at all, since I'm still within the image circle provided by the lenses.
I'm not interested in the 4x5 aspect ratio. Hence my confusion.

I'll probably have to test this myself

Just to add: I decided to try out the 100mm. It should arrive next week. Then I'll decide which one to keep, the 3.5/100 or the 2.8/80. The 100mm would mean a $450 price difference in my particular case...

Oren Grad · Jun 2, 2018

Reading it again with fresh eyes, I think my (1) was mistaken and isn't really what they had in mind; their point was what I wrote as (2): they think you're likely to get vignetting with lenses in the 40-60mm range, and so they give you a mask so that you can exclude the vignetting both while composing and while exposing.

But you already figured out the bottom line yourself anyway:

icarus86 said:
I'll probably have to test this myself

Good luck and enjoy!

Arthurwg · Jun 2, 2018

icarus86 said:
Actually I'm less interested in controlling the perspective distortion, but rather more interested in controlling the depth of field. As I said, I tend to shoot my lenses wide open, whenever possible.

Just wondering, why do you like to shoot wide open, especially if there's adequate light to stop down?

icarus86 · Jun 3, 2018

Arthurwg said:
Just wondering, why do you like to shoot wide open, especially if there's adequate light to stop down?

Well, if it's absolute "clinical sharpness" that I'm looking for, then IMHO, the Canon 16-35/4L is a *monster*, and so is the Sigma 50/1.4 Art when slightly stopped down. But even if these are amazing lenses, they're still kind of... well, "clinical".
Don't get me wrong, I shot the CF 4/50 FLE many times at f/11 on a tripod, and it's amazing. But the film grain, whatever they do at the lab when they develop it and my more-than-imperfect Epson scanner each take a bit away from the quality.

So with the Hasselblad, I try to get "something else". I try to use limited depth of field as much as possible because I like the transitions. This is why I got the FlexBody, not to increase DOF but rather limit it more creatively.

Arthurwg · Jun 3, 2018

Great answer. Thanks.

icarus86 · Jun 5, 2018

OK, so my PM5 viewfinder (non-metered) arrived today and I started to play around with the FlexBody.
I tried using the 10-degree and 20-degree correction slides and they... work as advertised ... though they reduce the viewfinder sharpness quite a bit.

One thing which I really need some help with:
How do I get the 4x5 screen mask off? Do I have to unscrew the 4 black screws in the corners of the rear standard or is there any other way?
I'm asking because I'd like to compose the image for 6x6 film and not for the CFV-39 back or anything else...

A few questions about the Hasselblad FlexBody

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