A few answers about Lith Dev & printing

Having read most of the threads on here the answers I need don't seem to be on here so I apologize if I'm treading old ground.

My first mix was Lith dev fotospeed LD20 15ml part A 485ml water - same again for part B - I didn't add any sodium etc - should I have?

The first few prints seem to take over 20 mins using FB Ilford multigrade - they had pepper fogging and to tell you the truth pretty dull after such a long wait!!

I then added another 10ml of part A & Part B and that certainly speeded the whole process up a tad, prints then took approx 7mins I then used Ilford warmtone FB and the pix were interesting but not with the rosy hues etc I've read about and seen.

I then had to pop out - when I came back 2hours later (very unusual to leave mid session) the dev was exhausted - didn't work at all. Is this usual?

I haven't thrown it - can I/should I use it again - if so how?

Do I need to add the powders that came with the mix Sodium something and another one! What do they do to the pix?

How do I get the pinks etc I've seen?

What are tips to get the most out of this kind of printing?

What did it mean on one of the strands that the contrast develops in the fix and not the developer - is that true?

Do you remove the print from the dev once the image is just appearing or do you leave it until it seems to have a proper black or is that too late?

Sorry so many questions but I'm new to this game and really want to get the most out of it.

Kind regards
Rebecca

First and foremost, get Tim Rudman's book on lith printing. All of your questions (and then some) will be answered there.

Try a stronger dilution, anywhere from 1:8 to 1:25, that will cut down on the amount of time the print is in the tray. Also, try another paper. Most people don't have too much luck with Ilford papers and lith printing. Check out Tim's update on lithable papers. (http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Lith2/lith2.html) It was written in 2004, but many of the papers haven't changed since then.

Don't throw the exhausted developer out, use it to add to a fresh batch of developer to help season the fresh developer.

Many fixers will bleach the highlights a little which adds to the contrast. There are ways around this.

You remove the print when you feel it looks right.

And finally (again), get Tim Rudman's book (The Master Photographer's Lith Printing Course: A Definitive Guide to Creative Lith Printing). He also has a new book coming out in the Fall also, but you should get his first book.

There aren't too many cut and dry answers to your questions, its a lot of trial and error to find out what works best for you. Hope this helps.

Hi Rebecca

one of the single most, over looked aspect of lith printing is the exposure and development of the original negative.

I prefer tri x or hp5 rated at 800iso, then push processed in HC110 .
As expected the negative will be very punchy but totally rocks for lith printing.

Rebecca,

Ilford Multigrade is not the best paper for Lithprinting. Ilford Warmtone will Lithprint but not very convincingly.

And, yes it is very likely that the very diluted developer will exhaust by oxidation in a couple of houres. I don't think it could be very usable as "old brown", as Travis suggested. You better use developer, thats exhausted by usage as opposed to oxidation by air for that purpose.

The pinks are obtainable depending on the paper used (Foma, Fotospeed f.e.), the dilution of the developer and the age in terms howmany sheets have already been processed through the batch of developer.

Guesing the moment to move the print from developer to fix is the tricky and essential part of Lithprinting, just before the blacks reach the requered density.

And finally, the best tip on Lithprinting I can give you, is to buy Tim Rudman's book. All you asked is in there and more. It's the bible of lithprinting and worth every penny. Get it!

Jaap Jan

Hi Rebecca,
You have been getting all very good advice to your problem here.
Firstly, you are using the wrong paper. Ilford papers are great papers and I use them a lot - but not for lith - they are not designed for it.
Paper choice is the first decision that will have a major, repeat major, effect on the appearance of the lith print. Not all B&W papers work well or at all, but many do. This will affect both the colour(s) you get and the tonality, graininess etc. If not sure what you want start with a paper well suited like Fotospeed Lith paper. There are many others (around 60 listed in the new book, but some are re-badges of course, but still a lot).
If you have a particular look in mind, this is the first choice to get what you want. If just trying it to feel your way, try an easy one and play. Or try 2 completely different ones to compare - e.g. Fotospeed Lith and say Foma Fomatone (RC version if you want). The latter is more colourful (especially in high dilutions) with a smoother look, and tones differently.

Your second choice is dilution. This can also have a major effect. Generally speaking higher dilutions give more colour, but papers vary in how much colour they will deliver. The Fomatone is very dilution-sensitive and gives an orangey pink shifting to salmon and can give colour splits too (a bit like split toning, without toning). You may not want salmon or maroon images of course - but they tone differently. They also have a different tonality even after changing colour in a toner. As well as more colour, higher dilutions tend to give a softer black (lower 'Dmax') and an extended tonal range in the light tones.

Adding old developer: Some papers give less colourful results (like B&W) in fresh lith dev. Adding some old to the fresh leapfrogs that stage. Some papers don't need it so much. You will get to know which do or don't (or which you prefer) by noting how much the colour changes through a printing session as the dev gets used.

These 2 factors have a big effect and people use which they like for their work. In the new book we have portfolios from someone who uses strong fresh developer for just 3 minutes, someone who uses very weak developer for up to 45 minutes - and someone who uses old nearly exhausted developer. Their results are all very different and each folio has a distinct personal look. (also work using additives or 2 bath techniques etc etc - so there are many variables but keep it simple to start with or you will get lost).

The process is actually easy to do. Pick an approriate paper, over expose a lot, control highlight density by increasing or decreasing exposure, control shadow density by pulling from the dev earlier or later.

Bob's comment about neg development is good too when you know the look you are after and want the neg only for lith. His prints are great. Someone else will want a different effect (viz my comments about the folios above) and will want a different type of neg. If you process negs negs normally you still have the option to print them any way you want and Lith is so flexible you can still get a huge range of results from one normal neg.
Above all, 1: keep it simple 2: change one thing at a time and keep notes 3: try a few very different paper types & 4: play. Having fun is the best way of learning.

Tim

Oh yes - the other thing I wanted to say Rebecca: You mentioned pink prints. Don't forget the colours change on drying.
I remember my early experiments trying to get pink in prints. Printed half the night changing one thing after another, always beige or caramel. Gave up and went to bed. The next morning they were all pink!
Tim

Think Pink !!!!!!

PS. Do you know why pink flamingoes are pink ?

I have a feeling I shouldn't ask - but No, why are flamingoes pink?

I believe it is the shrimp they eat....seriously......

Thank you

Thank you all so much for your time, help, tips and information I really appreciate it and will be taking it all.

Regards
Rebecca

Call me Cliff Clavin if you want to, president of the Club of useless knowledge... It is the shrimp. That's why flamingoes in captivity are never as colorful as the wild ones. Little that it has to do with lith printing... Perhaps eating a plate of shrimp would help things?

Mark Fisher said:

I believe it is the shrimp they eat....seriously......

Click to expand...

Ilford Warmtone in Lith

I prefer this paper over all but one lith paper *fotospeed lith*.

I use a strong lith dilution 1-10 plus old dev.

The secret with this paper is to pull the print just as the blacks are emerging. Watch the contrast explode in the fix.
Once you get it remember to watch for the emerging blacks.

I eat shrimp, then lith print...

(it rhymes in a strange but interesting way, doesn't it ?)

Sorry to hijack your thread, Rebecca. I do it frequently, but it's not my fault, I am diagnosed with CTHS (compulsive thread hijacking syndrome). My shrimp (sorry, shrink) and I are working on it now...