a compact camera with soldered-in batteries

AgX · Oct 22, 2014

Well, I already got some cameras with non user-exchangable batteries: most types of Kodak Disc cameras. And there is that one electronic flash for the Olympus AX-series that has to be sent in to change the batteries.

Today I was puzzled when I opened my new Fuji DL-200, a compact autofocus camera with inbuilt flash and TTL-metering from the film surface. Quite advanced thus.

But the battery is pack made out of two BR 2/3A Lithium batteries, welded together and soldered to two wires going into the battery compartment. The whole assembly is held in place by a clip from strip metal. All neatly designed.

Basically this looks like a a precursor to the common CR-P2 6V Lithium pack. Though that won't fit as its plastic casing makes it too big.

Could that really be a precursor out of a period when such pack was not yet standardized?
But then, why not make a compartment with spring-contacts for sole Lithium batteries, as typically done with exchangable alkaline batteries?

johnha · Oct 22, 2014

I can't help with the above, but there were some cameras relied on an internal 'memory backup' soldered in battery. When it failed, the repair cost was much more expensive than a new camera. Of course no mention of this was made in the blurb associated with the cameras so users didn't have any warning.

gone · Oct 22, 2014

One other thing I might mention (sorry, this isn't what you asked, and I have no knowledge of your particular issue), is that a lot of little compact cameras w/ built in flashes have capacitors that can hold a charge for months, or even for a year, and will knock you into yesterday (or the emergency room or the morgue) if something gets touched in the wrong place, at the wrong time. I suspect that some manufacturers purposely soldered the batteries in to keep users from going in there and replacing them themselves. I'm sure you know what you're doing, but for anyone else working inside these things, please watch out. It is amazing how much power can be stored up in there, even w/ a small 3 or 6 volt battery.

ic-racer · Oct 22, 2014

My interpretation is that the batteries were to be replaced by the camera manufacturer's "Service Department" for a price $$$.

AgX · Oct 22, 2014

But do you know of any other cameras with main batteries not consumer-exchangable?

AgX · Oct 22, 2014

By the way, another japanese autofocus camera of mine, even got a 3V inlet to save batteries. So, the opposite approach by the industry is existing too.

ic-racer · Oct 24, 2014

I had a plastic camera in the 1980s where the soldered-in battery was only for the flash. From what I recall the camera was glued together...a semi-disposable camera.

From the Fuji DL-200 manual:

The batteries (two 3-volt lithium bateries) are built into the camera. If half of your pictures are taken with flash, the batteries are good for exposing about 1,000 frames., and if you use 8 rolls of 24-exposure film a year, the batteries do not need changing for about five years.
Authorized Service Centers of Fuji Distributors will change the batteries for you at a reasonable cost. Do not remove them or replace them yourself...

elcabezagrande · Oct 25, 2014

The Olympus AFL Quick Flash had a hardwired lithium battery.

PentaxBronica · Oct 26, 2014

Those Kodak Disc batteries lasted a lot longer than expected.

I was recently given one that my grandparents had bought new in the early '80s (granny wanted rid as she was having a clearout). It still whirrs away merrily, although the lack of disc film has rendered it a paperweight. I have a feeling that the adverts claimed the batteries would last twenty years?

AgX · Oct 26, 2014

I can confirm them lasting. In contrast to the general belief at Apug quite some Disk cameras were sold, seen how often they show up.
But maybe they were not that much used...

bdilgard · Oct 26, 2014

Another Fuji - The TW3 1/2 frame.

AgX · Oct 27, 2014

Thank you all for the replies. Very interesting.

PentaxBronica · Oct 27, 2014

AgX said:
I can confirm them lasting. In contrast to the general belief at Apug quite some Disk cameras were sold, seen how often they show up.
But maybe they were not that much used...

Well, this one looks as though it spent more time in the wardrobe than it did taking photos! I have a feeling that it was bought for a trip to the USA in about 1983 or so, after that it probably saw a couple of discs of film a year at most.

I know the format wasn't well thought of, but if I could get hold of the film and have it processed I'd still give it a try. Unfortunately I don't think it'd fit in my Paterson dev tank even if I found some unused stock!

Xmas · Jan 18, 2015

AgX said:
But do you know of any other cameras with main batteries not consumer-exchangable?

Apple Iphones?

DWThomas · Jan 18, 2015

Xmas said:
Apple Iphones?

You got it! Or maybe that means it shouldn't be considered a camera. I tried to use mine for some snapshooting whilst traveling light and discovered I was running out of battery after just a few hours. The only solution for that is a USB cable-connected booster, unlike my cameras where the batteries swap (and also last three or four times longer). But then, I never have battery problems with my Argus C-3!

elekm · Jan 18, 2015

I'm going to guess that camera makers figured that consumers wouldn't use the cameras that often, and by the time the batteries had depleted, the consumer will have bought another camera.

By the way, I accidentally shorted a flash capacitor in a small digital P&S. In addition to a significant shock, it also burned two tiny holes in the end of my thumb.

benjiboy · Jan 18, 2015

AgX said:
But do you know of any other cameras with main batteries not consumer-exchangable?

There's a coin size flat CR 1220 Lithium one in the Canon T90 that powers the camera memory and display that isn't user replaceable they were supposed to last ten years and it's over 25 years since the camera was made .

AgX · Jan 18, 2015

I know. That is why I refered to main batteries.

That Canon internal battery only serves memorizing some settings while the camera is without main batteries (at least that is what the manual says). And at my sample that memory still works when exchanging the main batteries!
Even if that memory would fail, that would not hamper the operation of the camera, it just saves one from re-doing about two (up to four) settings after main battery exchange.

benjiboy · Jan 18, 2015

AgX said:
I know. That is why I refered to main batteries.

That Canon internal battery only serves memorizing some settings while the camera is without main batteries (at least that is what the manual says). And at my sample that memory still works when exchanging the main batteries!
Even if that memory would fail, that would not hamper the operation of the camera, it just saves one from re-doing about two (up to four) settings after main battery exchange.

It powers the film counter and the mode settings which are pretty important. if I ever get my T90 CLA'd I'll get the battery replaced as a precaution.

AgX · Jan 18, 2015

The film-speed/mode/meter-angle/release-mode are easy to re-set (if one does not use the default setting anyway)

But I forgot about that exposure-counter! One cannot re-set this at all.

Thank you for hinting at this.

benjiboy · Jan 18, 2015

AgX said:
The film-speed/mode/meter-angle/release-mode are easy to re-set (if one does not use the default setting anyway)

But I forgot about that exposure-counter! One cannot re-set this at all.

Thank you for hinting at this.

It was more than a hint . It's a simple job for a camera repairer to de solder the CR1220 Lithium battery from the main circuit board and replace it I've spoken to the camera tech. who services my cameras about it and he says if my T90 ever needs it replacing if I bring the battery in with be he can do it easily in an hour, and it wouldn't cost much, but he has never seen one that has ever failed.

PentaxBronica · Jan 18, 2015

Presumably the T90 battery recharges from the main battery, much like the BIOS battery in a computer?

benjiboy · Jan 18, 2015

I don't think so the L.C..D display will use very little power.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Jan 18, 2015

I bought an Polaroid 350 and put a 3V disc lithium battery inside. I found only one chance to use camera when few weeks earlier visit to Polaroid Turkey before the collapse. They looked me like an space alien and gave me two packages of outdated film free.

I did not see worse results than polaroid passports photographs , horrible , nobody could not expose them correctly and lenses were terrible , it distorts to face one to another person.

After 16 years and 10 shots , battery been caput and changed again. I wish I will be around for next two batteries.

AgX · Jan 19, 2015

But the Polaroid 350 had user-replacable batteries.

Though I never ever have come across these at a store over here...
(Those Polaroid folders are rare here anyway.)

a compact camera with soldered-in batteries

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