A Beutiful Lens

graywolf · May 16, 2012

I ordered a 210/5.6 Symmar convertible lens from KEH. The price was relatively cheap, the rating was UG (ugly). I got it today, and it looks excellent plus.

Heard that story before? Wait, read the rest.

Upon closer examination, the shutter is running pretty darn slow, and there is fungus between the cemented pair on the rear element. Actually there are two of those pretty snowflake fungi in there. Now, to me, those do not make the lens ugly, they make it junk. I can do a CLA on the shutter, but what can I do about that fungus? Having lenses re-cemented is expensive, and no way to know if the fungus has etched the glass until they are separated.

Possibly, I could find another with a badly damage front element, would mixing and matching the elements even work? How close are they from the factory?

The question is what to do? Send it back for a refund? Try to use it as is? Try to find another rear element? Go rent a gun and blow my brains out? What? In any case, I am limited to low-budget solutions only.

ann · May 16, 2012

send it back.

antmar · May 16, 2012

+1 send it back, lens is expensive if not repairable.

Vaughn · May 16, 2012

graywolf said:
...The question is what to do? Send it back for a refund? Try to use it as is? Try to find another rear element? Go rent a gun and blow my brains out? What? In any case, I am limited to low-budget solutions only.

Send it back, bullets are expensive...

iulian · May 16, 2012

"Ugly" Very rough looking. Multiple impressions in metal, excessive finish loss and brassing. Glass will have marks, fungus and/or haze which will affect picture quality.*

Taken directly from the keh site. They may accept a return but it will be because they are nice guys.

BrianShaw · May 16, 2012

Don't use a gun. Use a knife and sit in the tub. Make things easier for those you leave behind.

BrianShaw · May 16, 2012

p.s. Try the lens and see if it really is useless junk. You may be surprised at how little effect those flaws have on your images. If you got it for a really good price, even the cost of a servicing might make it a very affordable and useful lens.

graywolf · May 16, 2012

iulian said:
"Ugly" Very rough looking. Multiple impressions in metal, excessive finish loss and brassing. Glass will have marks, fungus and/or haze which will affect picture quality.*

Taken directly from the keh site. They may accept a return but it will be because they are nice guys.

They may say that somewhere, even after reading your post, I was not able to quickly find that.

Toffle · May 16, 2012

I'm with Brian; the defects on the lens may have surprisingly little effect on your images. Do a CLA on the shutter, and try the old UV fungus treatment on the rear element. I've not done it myself, but I have heard of people "curing" moderate cases of fungus by simply leaving the glass in full sun for a few hours. (or days)

BrianShaw · May 16, 2012

graywolf said:
They may say that somewhere, even after reading your post, I was not able to quickly find that.

Dead Link Removed

graywolf · May 16, 2012

I sent them an email, to see what they are willing to do about it.

I guess I use it as a paper weight, hadn't thought of that, but I was taking photos of it on a sheet of paper on the hood of my car, and I noticed that it kept the sheet of paper from blowing away.

I guess I am old fashioned, anything that affects the usability of what you are selling should be noted specifically in my mind. Personally, I think they should just toss defective items, it is not good business to pass problems on to your customers. I have had good luck with KEH in the past, but this is the first, and will be the last time I buy something from them with a rating of UG. I would point out that they would only have had to add one word to their listing to make the condition of this lens clear, "fungus". and I would not have bought it. That and "separation" are about the only problems with a camera that I do not feel competent to repair.

BrianShaw · May 16, 2012

If that is how you feel, then you should have bought a higher grade.

graywolf · May 16, 2012

I bookmarked that list, thanks, Brian.

You guys really think something like this will not affect the image too badly?

The problem with just trying it is that I do not at the moment have a lens board to fit it.

Old-N-Feeble · May 16, 2012

I'd ask them if they'll accept it in exchange for a nicer lens. Whatever the outcome it's two lessons learned; 1. Be sure you understand what all terms mean, 2. Only gamble what you can afford to lose.

graywolf · May 16, 2012

Old-N-Feeble, funny you should say that.

I was just thinking that my problem is I am spending what gamblers call scared money. What I spend on my hobbies basically is coming out of the food budget, I really no longer have any disposable income at all. Trouble is that without my hobbies I might just as well roll over and die, they are what keeps me interested in living. Like a lot of older people without family, the other choice is sit and watch television, and I can not stand television. Then our health often curtails our activities, I do not ride the bicycles much anymore, for example.

I keep buying things cheap then have to spend a lot of money fixing them up. If I had the cash up front, I would be much better off buying things in good shape, but then I would not have all the fun, if it can be called that, of fixing them.

I was also thinking about when I first bought something from KEH, and it has to have been back in 1981-82, because it was a grip for a Super Technika. The scary thing about fungi, to me, is that they are alive and they spread getting into more and more stuff. This, I think, is going into a zip lock baggy until its fate is decided one way or another.

LJH · May 16, 2012

You might have a nice soft focus portrait lens!

Klainmeister · May 16, 2012

OhhHHHHhhh, that is a purdy lookin' fungi there. I'd just ask em to upgrade to the next level in exchange. Their policy is pretty damn straight forward.

Dan Fromm · May 16, 2012

graywolf;1344314e said:
What I spend on my hobbies basically is coming out of the food budget, I really no longer have any disposable income at all. Trouble is that without my hobbies I might just as well roll over and die, they are what keeps me interested in living. Like a lot of older people without family, the other choice is sit and watch television, and I can not stand television.

Graywolf, what's your hobby? Acquiring photographic equipment or taking pictures? Taking pictures doesn't require much gear and I gather that you already have enough gear to take pictures.

Re new gear, I've pretty much stopped accumulating. Took inventory, found that I have more in working order than I can carry, not to mention use. And since my neighbor the Zeiss collector died I haven't had the devil whispering in my ear.

Y'know, you could read more. Walk more. Take up writing. Find a new hobby. Re that last, I find to my considerable surprise that in my retirement and second childhood I've taken on a translation project. Not what I'd ever expected to do and not very expensive, either.

Poisson Du Jour · May 16, 2012

I would not look twice at a fungal-infection on a lens, anywhere on a lens. Fungus is a live organism. It will spread/etch over time, even a long period of time. Fungal spores released during removal are extremely hazardous to health; probably best to incinerate the lens. Sad but true.

Old-N-Feeble · May 16, 2012

...

graywolf said:
Old-N-Feeble, funny you should say that.

I was just thinking that my problem is I am spending what gamblers call scared money. What I spend on my hobbies basically is coming out of the food budget, I really no longer have any disposable income at all. Trouble is that without my hobbies I might just as well roll over and die, they are what keeps me interested in living. Like a lot of older people without family, the other choice is sit and watch television, and I can not stand television. Then our health often curtails our activities, I do not ride the bicycles much anymore, for example.

Me too, LOL!! I'm spending a lot more than I should on photo gear even though I should be selling instead. Getting old and watching TV? Nahh... get on the forums and BS with your forum buddies instead... more therapeutic and far more interesting.

I keep buying things cheap then have to spend a lot of money fixing them up. If I had the cash up front, I would be much better off buying things in good shape, but then I would not have all the fun, if it can be called that, of fixing them.

I used to think that way... then I got lazy.

I was also thinking about when I first bought something from KEH, and it has to have been back in 1981-82, because it was a grip for a Super Technika. The scary thing about fungi, to me, is that they are alive and they spread getting into more and more stuff. This, I think, is going into a zip lock baggy until its fate is decided one way or another.

Makes sense to me.

Old-N-Feeble · May 16, 2012

Michael R 1974 said:
To be honest I'd get rid of anything with fungus. I wouldn't want it around my other gear. And no you can't get rid of it with UV. UV can get rid of some spores but not live fungus. Most optical services and optics companies (like Zeiss) won't even accept a fungus-infected lens. To kill it all requires a strong x-ray bombardment. Even then, the glass and coatings are likely already etched and can't be fixed.

Hmm... that's scary. So we should never buy lenses from any relatively large dealers which, most certainly, have had fungus-infested lenses come through their inventory? That pretty much eliminates all the good dealers. Not trying to be an ass, though I do often appear as such. You may very well be right. I don't know but I'd sure like to know.

semi-ambivalent · May 16, 2012

If your city is of some size there might be a business there that specializes in x-raying welds or forgings for flaws. They probably have more than enough power at hand to nuke anything inside that lens. Might even do it on the cheap for the novelty of it. Screw up your courage and call KEH. Lay it out politely and see what they say, you might be surprised. If it heads south get on the phone and call some commercial X-ray companies. And good luck.

s-a

Old-N-Feeble · May 16, 2012

Michael... Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm, very paranoid... plus skeptical and cynical.

I, as you do, just want to know the truth.

Michael

Old-N-Feeble · May 16, 2012

I guess I've done a fairly decent job of keeping my stuff stored in low-humidity environments. I monitor (via feel and local forecasts) humidity and keep my air conditioners cool enough to prevent excess moisture... often mixing heating/cooling to kill humidity.

I've never seen any fungus in the 30+ years I've owned lenses. To be fair though I lived in north Texas a great deal of my life... very dry if equipment is kept inside. But I moved to south Texas about 15 years ago... and I've adjusted my methods somewhat... adding heaters to A/C to kill moisture. This has cost me in electricity but never in loss of equipment.

Hell... I like the same environment as my photo gear does so no big expense anyway.

polyglot · May 16, 2012

Poisson Du Jour said:
I would not look twice at a fungal-infection on a lens, anywhere on a lens. Fungus is a live organism. It will spread/etch over time, even a long period of time. Fungal spores released during removal are extremely hazardous to health; probably best to incinerate the lens. Sad but true.

Except it's not true. Fungal spores are everywhere and unavoidable, all they need is a place to grow, some warmth and some moisture. Sure you can put this lens in a baggie or incinerate it or whatever makes you feel better, but it won't make your other lenses any safer.

If the fungus is accessible, you can clean/kill it yourself easily using ammonia mixed with something (google it), followed by a bit of strong UV (sunshine). It won't come back, though your glass might be etched and cause you some flare.

And nth-ing the comments that "UG" grade specifically includes the possibility of fungus; you should absolutely have known before purchasing that UG means "for parts or repair". I generally buy BGN from KEH as it's specified as being functionally good even if it looks worn. KEH will probably take it back if you pay return postage because they are, after all, really nice people. If you don't want a fungusy lens, get an RMA and some store credit for a better lens.

A Beutiful Lens

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