9x12 Newbie questions

[Rhodes]

I got as a very, very X-mas (or 3 wise men) present, a Voigtländer Vag 9x12. And have some newbie questions.
The camera comes with a metal film holder (loaded, and have to decide if the film is exposed or not and develop it if so). I intend to buy more holders, so, can I buy modern ones (ex: Linhof) or they would not fit. Have I to get only the old metal ones? From any brand or only the camera's brand?
Infinity stop, the camera does not have any. Does this mean that I have to extend the bellow all the way to edge of the camera? The only manual I found covered the models of the camera (MF and 9x12) and explain that one should extend the bellows until a spring lock, but I can not find any evidence of that in my. Also, can not find any lack of pieces in the board.
And, if you are wondering that I could use the ground glass to establish the infinity, the camera does have that. My third question is similar to the holders one. Can I buy any ground glass to put on the camera or have to be specific for the camera model.

 

[Ian Grant]

You need to find pre-WWII plate holders and get some film inserts see this thread.

Modern 9x12 film holders are Interbational and will fit modern (or older US) 5x4 cameras asthe outside dimensions are identical.they won't fit your camera.

Ian

 

[shutterfinger]

Just looked at a manual on Butkus site. The locking spring is on the bottom of the front standard. If you pull the front standard to the end of the bed does it stop or does it come off the bed?

 

[Rhodes]

Thank you Ian, I will look into it.
Shutterfinger, it come of the bed if I pull beyond it. The bellows do some resistance, so coming of the bed could be limited by them, and I didn't not want to force them. There is noting to stop me of doing so besides the bellows size. No metal edge, barrier, stop. I will try to take a picture of it and post.

 

[shutterfinger]

it come of the bed if I pull beyond it. The bellows do some resistance, so coming of the bed could be limited by them, and I didn't not want to force them.

Pull the standard out until its almost off the bed then take a picture of the bottom of the standard.

 

[Rhodes]

The photos:

 

[shutterfinger]

My best guess is that the spring or lock is missing.
How about a picture of the bed with the standard in the body.

 

[Ian Grant]

Usually with this type of 9x12 camera the front standard sits at the end of the rail at Infinity with a 150mm lens and back a little with a 135mm lens like yours.

This is a budget model and doesn't have the focus thunb-wheel and rack and pinion instead it uses a lever, I think it's possibly in the wrong position so not engaging with the front standard.

Ian

 

[Rhodes]

The photo of the front bed:

 

[shutterfinger]

http://www.cameramanuals.org/voigtlander_pdf/voigtlander_plate.pdf
shows this focusing mechanism. It looks correct.
There appears to be a notch at the end of the bed in the center, this is where the stop should be.
See page 4 of the manual, the spring appears to be missing.
Is it possible that its not a notch at the end of the bed and the spring is bent over or broken off?

 

[Rhodes]

Could be missing, or that small orifice in the left rail was something related with the infinity lock and is missing. I tried and manage to got the front standard and took a picture.

 

[shutterfinger]

Notch I was refereeing to is at the green arrow.

The round disk center of the front standard is the shift lock retainer/nut.
The infinity lock spring is either broken off or has been removed.
You'll need either another complete camera to compare to or the factory service manual/engineering diagram to know what and where.

 

[Rhodes]

I see, I first thought of that notch also, but it is where the front board locks in body, when closed. Or it may serve both roles.
I will search for pictures of the same model and try to see.
Thank you shutterfinger.

 

[Rhodes]

Found a few pictures of other models and saw that mine lacks the infinity stop, a small screw/knob in the left focusing rail(track?), that would be placed in the small hole that is visible in one of the photos.
the red arrow points at it on this images.


This model is the 6x9, but it may work in a similar way.

 

[shutterfinger]

Likely a .6mm x 1.5mm.

 

[Rhodes]

Thanks!

 

[paul ron]

I have an AVUS, very similar to your camera with a couple extras but.....

Shouldn't you pull the standard out till you get it to the scale on the side where it indicates infinity and tweak it from there on the GG?
The AVUS has a stop built into that scale where a small tab of the standard hits it. If I want to go past that I have to press down on the scale to release the tab.

The AVUS has 2 small screws on the underside of the rails to stop it from coming off the rails.
If you are concerned about the standard leaving the front rails... just install a small screw at the end of the rail to stop it?

 

[Ian Grant]

Paul, the Avus is quite a different camera with rack and pinion focussing and uses a different locking system like some of my 9x12's. Rhodes has identified therese a pin/screw missing from the right hand rail see the hole and later photos , the standard is pull to meet it. The Vag was a very basic model compared to the Avus.

Ian

 

[paul ron]

Oh, so the missing screw is the problem here, not stoping it? That should be an easy enough fix.

BTW Ian thanks for the 9x12 help posts, especially the holder threads. Im still looking for holders but at a loss when it comes to the descriptions I see in the for sale adds. Im still not clear what fits or doesnt. The only thing keeping me from using my AVUS more... I only have 3 holders.

 

[shutterfinger]

Im still looking for holders but at a loss when it comes to the descriptions I see in the for sale adds. Im still not clear what fits or doesnt.

most sellers on that auction site are retailers without a clue as to what they actually have. They usually come from an estate clean out.
It really pays to know what you need.

 

[Ian Grant]

Oh, so the missing screw is the problem here, not stoping it? That should be an easy enough fix.

BTW Ian thanks for the 9x12 help posts, especially the holder threads. Im still looking for holders but at a loss when it comes to the descriptions I see in the for sale adds. Im still not clear what fits or doesnt. The only thing keeping me from using my AVUS more... I only have 3 holders.

Best place to search is Ebay but not .com or .co.uk, instead search on ebay.de go to the camera section just type 9x12 you'll see some and realise what else to add to the search "platten" I think. All Ebay portals use the same database and login so you can Login to the German version using you're normal iD/Password and save Watched items, they will appear in your regular .com. Search terms names don't map across because of the s=different languages and listings being opted as national rather than International. Far more 9x12 holders in Germany than the UK/US.

I have 2 boxes of 9x12 holders that don't fit my cameras, I'm lucky as all my cameras take the same ones. I need to sort them out, or rather get them out I think they are sorted by fit. I need to check my own thread to see what's what

Ian

 

[Rhodes]

Paul, select Planfilmkassetten on the left menu after putting 9x12 on the search bar in ebay.de or 9x12 Plattenkassette in the search bar. I normally use German ebay for a lot of photo material.
As Ian said, my trouble was just knowing where was the infinity stop of my camera and you may have a point. The screw is possible align with the infinity mark on the focusing scale on the opposite side. To take the front standard out of the rails, one need to pull hard to do so, so no worries of that leaving the rails.

 

[paul ron]

thanks guys. my problem isn't finding holders, its finding the right ones. the sellers have no idea what cameras they fit. I see plenty for sale... I just want confirmation they will fit and the sellers don't want to bother with that... they tell me as is, a few say send them back.

I bought a lot of 30 from a German seller, taking my chances because they looked right in the pictures. when I got them, not a single one fit. I gave them to a friend who passed them to another friend and by now they are back in Germany.

 

[Ian Grant]

Paul and Rhodes, are your plate holders flat edged like "G" in this image ?

Ian

 

[paul ron]

the Kodak holder has a slot and single lip at the bottom.
my other 2 have a single lip. both types work fine.

both types of holders are 100mm X 150mm along the edge.
the lip is 1mm thick and the slot is 1.5mm deep, the lip is also 1.5 mm deep.

hope that covers it?