90mm on a baby speed..

peter k. · Feb 20, 2016

I think it has to be able, but want to verify, can you adjust the rangefinder for a 90mm on a 2x3 speed?
Having a heck of a time.

Dan Fromm · Feb 20, 2016

Kalart RF? Yes.

shutterfinger · Feb 20, 2016

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/kalart_1.html says 101mm for the shortest lens on 2x3. Maybe set the infinity and 15/25 foot and skip the close distance setting.

If its a Hugo Meyer its a waste of time as they were made for one focal length with enough adjustment range to cover the production variances.

ic-racer · Feb 20, 2016

Do you have the cam? If not you can make one. Too bad the cam shapes are not posted anywhere (am I correct?). I know scans of all the Horseman cams are available; I posted them on the LF forum.

shutterfinger · Feb 20, 2016

ic-racer said:
Do you have the cam? If not you can make one. Too bad the cam shapes are not posted anywhere (am I correct?). I know scans of all the Horseman cams are available; I posted them on the LF forum.

2x3 Graphics, Crown, Speed, Century, Miniature, nor 3x4 Crown or Speed Graphics have a rangefinder that use a cam system. Only 4x5 Pacemaker Crown or Speed Graphics equipped with a Graphic Top Rangefinder use a cam, all other models use Kalrt or Hugo Meyer rangefinder mounted on the side of the camera.

peter k. · Feb 20, 2016

Ah.. yes its a Kalart Side mount..
Set the infinity, there is so little adjustment on these 2x3, then I go to 25'.. and set the rear, and then check infinity, and its off.. Needs to go up, so I readjust infinity, all the way out, (forward) and it doesn't make it.
There is so little travel between infinity and 25'.. when adjusting for focus off the ground glass, so that's why I was wondering if it could really go with a 90.
Lens is a Graflex Optar W.a. f6.8 # 469104 3~1/2"

I tried adjusting the prism, that doesn't solve it either.
I replaced the mirror and thought maybe the reflective surface was wrong side up, so I flipped it.
Still no luck...

I got another Kalart, but this one is adjusting ok.. just not getting the job done, so I don't think its the Kalart.
The only other thing I could think of is, that perhaps those 2x3's that have 90's on them, have a different 'Arm'
By the makings on the rails, and where the prism was set before I change it, it had to have a longer lens. My infinity stop is 3/8" behind the closest mark.

So unless you guys have some other ideas.. I don't think it likes a 90.
at least, not this 90. Did a speed test on the lens, as usual at its the lower speeds, its ok.. above 150.. ha forget about it.

But the dang thing is so small.. and light.. its seems it would be easy to use the ground glass without a tripod.. where with the 4x5 or 3x4 that just isn't practical for me.

shutterfinger · Feb 20, 2016

Every Kalart I've come in contact with that consistently shifted between infinity and 25/15 when one was set needed to be disassembled, cleaned, and a trace lube applied. Set the infinity on the arm as it is in the picture in the manual not 180° out. (Edit) I was correct the first time with the front standard fully retracted into the body, the arm against the eccentric, turn the rangefinder shaft inward to its limit and tighten the arm's set screw.
Sticky movements = unable to adjust.

peter k. · Feb 20, 2016

Hmmm.. new territory.. where is the trace lube applied, .. there must be a manual on this somewhere..

shutterfinger said:
Set the infinity on the arm as it is in the picture in the manual not 180° out.

Yes on for the 2x3 they show a shot of it looking down in the manual, but what are you referring to when you say not 180* out?

shutterfinger said:
Make sure that the rangefinder travel is at its travel limit ...

Are you referring to, when the 2x3 is closed, observe with the rangefinder lid off, that the #2 on fig F. (in the manual) is all the way to the left?
(To continue with same sentence...)

shutterfinger said:
...when the front standard is fully inside the body and the arm is at the camera back to 1 millimeter forward.

Hmmm with the lens all the way back inside the camera, and off the rails, the arm is pressing exactly as shown fig B page 5 in the manual. So what are you referring to, in regards to where the arm is to be 1 millimeter forward?

Thanks for your help again..

shutterfinger · Feb 20, 2016

On page 3 the eccentric should be set so that the slot is vertical with the offset forward. Other types adjust according to the instructions on page 4.

I corrected my edit in post 7, should be correct this time.

As for lube, a trace of grease where parts slide against one another or the case/frame, a trace sheen of oil on shafts or pivots.

There is no known service manual.

If the rangefinder arm is incorrectly set on the rangefinder shaft that comes through the body it will prevent the front standard from going into the body fully as the rangefinder will be at its full reward movement before the front standard is fully retracted into the body. If the arm is set with the shaft more than a degree or two forward then the close focus distance will not be reached due to the rangefinder reaching its forward limit prematurely.
Clearer than mud?

shutterfinger · Feb 20, 2016

Edit will not allow adding images so,
The Kalart changed continually on the mirror side during production from 1946/47 to their end in 1954/55 or 56 but the internal working remained the same.
An early version of the last model of Kalart:

The distance between the actuating arm cam (A second picture) and the case (bottom edge of photo) should be 9 to 10 millimeters. A in picture 1 will not fit between the cam and case if the cam to case distance is too narrow.

peter k. · Feb 20, 2016

Hmm.. yes Jo Lommen, who you are familiar with, has this shown this in a 'New Approach to set the Rangefinder' .. http://lommen9.home.xs4all.nl/kalartmain/index.htm

But for now doing a KISS.. and found the arm was not correctly set, allot softer, against the eccentric, so this is most likely the case of it not being able to adjust correctly. It may have come loose over its life.. or.. who knows.

Boy on this 2x3 there is no set screw, its a hexagon.. right up against the case edge it has to be pushed to get enough of the rangefinder shaft exposed to get a small needle nose vice grip on it, twisted it, and tightened it, while my wife held the arm up against the eccentric, while the camera laid on its back.

Tomorrow is a full day.. Monday.. will try setting the rangefinder again, and see what takes place.

Fascinating and a lot of fun, when you can make some progress.. otherwise a P.I.A. trying to get infinity and shorter distances aligned.
Thanks again.. will update.

shutterfinger · Feb 20, 2016

I have found Jo Lemon tips are get it going type not repair to enhance longevity and therefore need to be taken with a grain of salt or two.
As far as his arm adjustment goes he says 9mm. Every Kalart I have worked on, around 10, needed 9.5mm and were better with 10mm clearance. It may have been the wear or machining tolerance on the one he used to draw his conclusion with that needed 9.

That set screw has a 3/16 hexagonal head. 3/16 end wrenches are getting more difficult to find as that size is not in use in manufacturing these days. Some Kalarts have flats on the end of the shaft, some do not.

choiliefan · Feb 21, 2016

To add to the confusion, my 2X3 Century with factory-fit 80mm 2.8 Xenotar focuses perfectly with its Kalart rangefinder.

peter k. · Feb 22, 2016

shutterfinger said:
Every Kalart I've come in contact with that consistently shifted between infinity and 25/15 when one was set needed to be disassembled, cleaned, and a trace lube applied.

Ohhhh... boy... have a new name for grease.. that's 70 +/- years old... dinosaur drag. hahah ah

peter k. · Feb 22, 2016

Well had to take it all apart because it still would not behave, and discovered the dry grease. Cleaned it and put it all back together, and have one that I can compare it to, its assembled correctly, but no matter where the actuating arm is located, and the back adjustment, is set all the way up, and I press it all the way to left, it will not seat. It rocks.
Any idea's, why it will not set completely?

peter k. · Feb 22, 2016

Hahaha Well disconnected the arm, took the base of the rangefinder off the camera, made sure it was 'clean' underneath, put back on, attached arm for proper 10mm, and this time the rangefinder sat back on.. A little rock but its adjusting.. so we will see what we get.

Next...

90mm on a baby speed..

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