8x10 camera suggestions please

Buster6X6 · Jan 17, 2005

Hi everyone
I have been fumbling along with 4x5 for about a year now. More I now and learn about LF photography more I realise I would like to go to 8x10 format and contact print( I have not touched my EOS in over 6 monts). Just recently I did some 4x5 and contact printed on VC paper it came out really nice but relatively small. I would like to be able to stand back and enjoy the print from some distance.
Now to my question.I have to save some money to buy 8x10 camera,and to be able to set my goal I have to find out what would be the camera to look for price range and features also lenses needed.I have Linhof 270mm lens now in #3 Copal shutter.
I like to shoot people and architecture and some time landscape.In the mean time I can learn some more about AZO and contact printing.There is so many knowlegable people on this forum that I can't wait to go on and read some more about a subject I am interested in.Thanks guy's I do appreciate it.

Regards Greg

John Koehrer · Jan 17, 2005

Hi Greg:
Are you going to use it in studio or outdoors?
You can live with a much heavier camera if you're not going to take it outdoors.
Older field cameras can make a relatively light & compact outfit but with limited movements
Monorails give the flexibility but at cost of weight & size.

Ole · Jan 17, 2005

Buster6X6 said:
...I have Linhof 270mm lens now in #3 Copal shutter.
I like to shoot people and architecture and some time landscape...

A 270mm lens is a little bit wider than normal for 8x10". Are you sure it will cover 8x10"? The only 270mm LF lenses I can remember at the moment are tele lenses for 9x12cm which barely cover 4x5". But those would be in #1 or #2 shutters...

There are lots of different cameras, the most important decision is monorail or "field", classic or modern. Some modern cameras have been in production for about a century, while some classics were in production until very recently. It is mostly a matter of movements; what I call "modern" cameras generally have more and better (smoother) movements than the "classics". More modern cameras are also often lighter than the classics, this gets to be important as soon as you've carried it more than a few hundred meters.

Monorails are generally heavier than most field cameras. The same applies to movements - monorails generally have more...

I think the same applies here as in many other areas: There are too many variables to answer your question. Find a camera, and then ask us what we think. If you find an Ebony, we'll all agree that it is total crap and should be destroyed, so you must send it to me for safe disposal.

Nick Zentena · Jan 17, 2005

I'm thinking he's going to use a bit of both. Landscapes and portraits.

Greg Linoff lens? I didn't think Linoff made lenses. They only selected lenses. But I guess most 270mm will cover 8x10.

What sort of a budget are you looking at? Personally I'm looking for something like the Ansco I got outbid on last week. Anything more expensive then that doesn't make sense to me. The double extension Tachihara isn't much more money then the Ansco finished up.

Are you sure 8x10 is big enough to stand back and enjoy? Also remember the bigger the camera the bigger the other costs/hassles. Film holders cost more and are heavier. Film costs more. You may need a bigger tripod.

To keep rambling. Lately I've seen some fixer upper older cameras selling for not much money. B&Js,older Kodaks etc. None of them looked pretty. You're risking having to replace the bellows but the prices weren't too high. If you're handy and willing to gamble on bellows then they're a choice. OTOH I lack to guts to gamble on as-is bellows. Replacement bellows can balloon the cost of a camera.

Daniel Grenier · Jan 17, 2005

Good plan.

Get a field camera. Much easier to use than a monorail. Since you want to shoot architecture, one with front shift would be preferable. In this case, a Zone VI (older model), Wisner, Canham, ShenHao would do quite finely. Most of these would sell between $1200 - $2000+ on the used market (ebay).

Lenses: Make sure to do your home work here as it is very easy to pick one that lacks covering power - crucial in architectural work. For instance, a 240 Sironar will vignette real quick whereas a 10"/250mm wide field ektar won't. Ditto a 360 Apo Ronar and a 360 Nikon W for instance. There are charts readily available that tell you the covering angles of all lenses. Make sure you know which lens does what before buying. Here's a good site: for lenses: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/LF8x10in.html

Personally, I now have lenses in 165, 240, 360 and 480 lenses. This is a good range for most all situations. A 600mm would also be great for landscape but my camera lacks bellows extension to accommodate this lenght.

Tripod: I own a Zone VI, Manfrotto and a Ries J200. If you get a heavier camera (i.e Zone VI or Wisner), get yourself a Ries A100 for it. A lighter 8x10 will be fine with a Ries J200.

AZO is IMO the way to go along with Amidol and Pyrocat to process your film.

And since you are in Canada, check out Trek Hall http://www.treckhall.com for great prices on film, paper, supplies and Photochem for all your chemicals (including Amidol) Dead Link Removed. They'll both save you a lot of $$$ and time as opposed to importing your supplies.

This is a start, I suppose. Let me know if you need more assistance in your going 8x10 and best of luck.

John Kasaian · Jan 17, 2005

Buster,

How much money do you want to spend? how portable do you want your camera to be? What movements do you require?

Check out the Calumet metal monster(moves, heavy), the Agfa Anscos(moves, not as heavy), Burk and James(moves, about the same wieght as the Agfa and Kodak) Kodak 2D(fewer moves, not as heavy as the Calumet) and Deardorff(lots of moves, quite portable compared to the others and reflected in the price) You might also luck out and find a Century Universal or Kodak Masterview, also excellent 8x10s. That should get you started.

Welcoome to 8x10!

Buster6X6 · Jan 17, 2005

The lens is Schneider -Xenar f4.5 240mm ( my apologies I have Linhof Schneider 270mm lens for my Tojo)in #3 Copal.I have not tried it yet on my Tojo, just to show you my ignorance it looks big so I assumed it would work on 8x10.But if I have to go out and by new lenses it is O.K.I like to go out and enjoy fresh air,I am not much for studio work. Some time I do it but I like out doors more.Obviously I can not afford set of lenses and the camera at once, but in time if I know what i need I will get the lenses I need.Camera is important part but I rather get good lens or lenses. I have not budget yet for anything waiting to see the outcome of my equerries.I do appreciate your response.

Greg

Ole · Jan 17, 2005

Buster6X6 said:
The lens is Schneider -Xenar f4.5 240mm

A 240 Xenar will not cover 8x10" except as a close-up lens. Data on most Schneider lenses can be found here. You can see that the shortest Xenar that covers is the 300mm. That is often sold "in barrel", meaning it has aperture but no shutter. If you should happen to find one in shutter, it takes a Compound #5, and the whole thing weighs about a kilo. That limits the number of cameras you can use it on, too.

If it had been a 240 Symmar - well, I've already mentioned that, I think...

rbarker · Jan 17, 2005

Be aware, Greg, that your requirements, as described, are somewhat at both ends of the feature spectrum. People photos tend to require normal-to-long focal lengths, while architecture tends to require wider lenses. Bellows draw is one of the major specs you'll want to consider with 8x10 - both in terms of minimum and maximum draw. Depending on the type of architectural work you like to do, you might benefit from availability of a bag bellows, for example. Architecture also tends to require more movements than landscape, while people shots usually require almost no movements at all. So, you'll want to compare the specs of the various cameras, and see where the balance point falls for you.

I went through a similar process a couple of years ago when I added 8x10 to my mix. After looking at the high prices that old Deardorffs were fetching at the time ($1,500-$2,000+), many with limited movements, I opted for a Tachihara double-extension model. It doesn't provide all of the movements I'd like for architectural work, but it's well built and fairly economical ($1,400 new). Weight was also a factor for me, so I chose that one over the heavier triple-extension model. The Tachi doesn't have interchangeable bellows, though, so it's not useful where extreme movements are required with wide lenses. But, it was $2K less than other 8x10 field cameras that had that feature.

WarEaglemtn · Jan 17, 2005

My vote goes for Deardorff. But then, I have some & like them.
Before you go buying newer cameras do a search of these & other LF forums & key in the makers names & see what kind of reputation they have. You don't want to get stuck with something that has lots of advertising dollars driving it but falls apart when you use it.
Brett Weston used the old Calumet Green Monster for some time. Solid & a workhorse though not a lightweight. It will last forever & you can use it to mug people if you get desperate.
Try to keep it simple at first. I would go one camera & one lense & a half dozen holders & get used to things before getting anything else.

JackRosa · Jan 17, 2005

The Calumet C-1 is a possibility and you can purchase one for a few hundred dollars. The one I used for several years served me well. It is very, very heavy and you should make sure that it is light-tight, and I don't mean just the bellows.

At one point I owned a Gandolfi Variant. Very good camera. Very light; ample movements; beautiful.

I have seen and played with a Deardorff and a Wisner. I liked both, at least from a preliminary point of view.

If $$ is no object, I suggest the Ebovy SV810U or SV810UE. I own the UE (the Ebony version) and recommend it highly.

Hope this insight helps.

Will S · Jan 17, 2005

Did you try enlarging your negatives to 8x10? It isn't that hard really. You might want to try that for awhile to decide if you really need the 8x10 camera. Of course, I did that and decided I need the 8x10 camera, only I don't have the money for it.

Best,

Will

Peter Schrager · Jan 17, 2005

8x10

One idea would be to rent an 8x10 for a week or so. Just to get the feel of it. Personally I hated 8x10. I spent a small BMW on ALL the stuff and then discovered I aint no Edward Weston.It was the format size that did it for me. I will not dispute a contact print. They are gorgeous and easy to make. On the other hand I am really fast with my Wista. I can carry more and do more within a given period of time. Costs go up really fast with 8x10 also. Instead I bought a really good 150mm enlarging lens and have taught myself to enlarge a well executed negative. I also use 5x7 which is the great "unknown" format. Very versatile and they enlarge like...well I won't say here! Think before you leap.
Now if Mr. Chinn ever decides to finish off those 7x17 cameras!
Regards Peter

DeanC · Jan 17, 2005

If you're not in a hurry to purchase right away you could spend some vacation time going to the Large Format Conference in Springfield, MA in May. There will be a number of vendors there with a decent variety of cameras. You'll be able to get your hands on some actual hardware to get a better feel for what works for you and what doesn't. Also, if last year was any indication, there should be some pretty good deals available.

Dean

Ray Bidegain · Jan 17, 2005

The Calumet C-1 is a great solid camera and only weighs 2-3 pounds more than a deardorff. I saw one on ebay this morning with a shade and 2 holders for 399.00 buy it now.

Ray Bidegain

Ray Bidegain · Jan 17, 2005

Here is a link http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15248&item=3868112388&rd=1

Ray Bidegain

photomc · Jan 17, 2005

Only input I can give you (do not shoot 8x10 - just started with 5x7) is find someone that is already working in the format. I had the opportunity yesterday to see some of lee\c 8x10 negatives and in the hands of someone like Lee all I can say is WOW!!

One negative was the interior of a church in Mexico, now I had seen an AZO contact print - but that negative was unreal...it was enough to make you drop everything and go find an 8x10 and go to work. That said, the fiscal side of the brain keeps telling me that I should wait and keep working with the 4x5 and 5x7's and then, and maybe later I will go to a larger format.

Good luck with which ever way you go...

colrehogan · Jan 17, 2005

DeanC said:
If you're not in a hurry to purchase right away you could spend some vacation time going to the Large Format Conference in Springfield, MA in May. There will be a number of vendors there with a decent variety of cameras. You'll be able to get your hands on some actual hardware to get a better feel for what works for you and what doesn't. Also, if last year was any indication, there should be some pretty good deals available.

Dean

I like the sound of good deals. I am planning on using some of my vacation to go to the conference this year as I'm hoping to upgrade my 8x10. I currently shoot with an Ansco.

Mongo · Jan 17, 2005

I'm going to throw in my recommendation for the Calumet C1 here as well. If you can find the magnesium model then the weight is very close to some of the older wooden cameras. (Note that C1's were available painted green or black. All black models are aluminum and weigh about 3 pounds more than the magnesium models. Not all green models are magnesium, though; when Calumet switched from magnesium to aluminum they continued to paint the cameras green for a while.)

I have a magnesium C1 and an old Korona Pictorial View wooden camera. There's about a pound and a half difference in weight between the two, but the Calumet has virtually every movement (rise and fall on the back is about the only significant thing missing) and is rock-solid, whereas the Korona has rise/fall and shift on the front only, swing and tilt on the back only, and gets pushed around pretty easily in the wind despite its weight. Either camera will get the shot you want, but the Calumet makes it easier.

You should be aware that the Calumet (and, amazingly enough, the Korona Pictorial View as well) only focuses from the rear standard. This isn't a problem if you're using a 300mm lens, but if you're using a short lens then you'll have to lean forward over the focusing rails to get to the ground glass. I've seen people mention this as a downside to the camera. (I'm fortunate to be tall enough that it's never caused me any problems.)

I also have a Cambo 8x10 monorail...it has every movement, replaceable bellows, tons of flexibility...but it's a beast and there's no way I'll ever take it into the field again. One time was enough for that particular exercise.

If you want to buy new, the Tachihara double-extension is a great buy (as long as you don't need longer bellows). In my mind, it's hard to beat the magnesium Calumet C1 on the used market. It is heavier than many cameras, but not frighteningly so, and you can abuse it pretty thoroughly without hurting it. I paid all of $240 for my camera, and it was in great condition. Bargains are there if you're patient.

Best of luck with your decision.

Buster6X6 · Jan 17, 2005

Thanks for all your replies
There is a ton of information and ideas to boost my confidence.I know that 8x10 is not going to be my only camera format I'll use.I love my 6x6 outfit. I do enlarge my 6x6 and 4x5's all the time.(When I have time) I need another 9 years to retire so I would like to get ready and get equipment( and knowledge) I need to pursue this beautiful hobby of ours.Ever since I bought my Hassi I new bigger (negative)is better, then friend of mine gave me Crown Graphic and I fell in love with it.Now I have MPP 4x5 which gives me range of full movements, and Toyo view 4x5.Somehow I know that 8x10 is going to give me size negative and look of a print I want.I know the cost is going up accordingly but the better I get more selective and efficient I will be.

Greg

Craig · Jan 20, 2005

Ole said:
You can see that the shortest Xenar that covers is the 300mm. That is often sold "in barrel", meaning it has aperture but no shutter. If you should happen to find one in shutter, it takes a Compound #5, and the whole thing weighs about a kilo.

Odd, I've got a 300/5.6 Xenar and I fonud it covers 8x10 just fine. I bought it new with a copal 3 shutter. I looked at the website you linked to, and it wasn't listed, but it clearly does exist.

Craig

Ole · Jan 20, 2005

Yes, the f:5.6 would be in a smaller shutter. Mine's an f:4.5, which is BIG.

jimgalli · Jan 20, 2005

I'll throw in FWIW. After years of use and many trial flirtations with other cameras I'm married to the Deardorff. My God they're tough. Mine is currently dis-assembled and on my bench. It found it's way to the ground when I was scurrying down some local cliffs. Pulled some screws loose. So I've glued toothpicks into the enlarged holes and will clean them flat with a chisel and re-drill this weekend. No big deal at all. Plus it's at home with anything from a 90mm to a 600mm. Like a good quality pair of leather shoes that are worn in and you hope they last forever. And like my bride, she ain't too hard to look at either.

I've got a magnesium C1 with a Wollensak 13" 20" 25" triple convertible I'll part with for $750. I'll throw in a couple 3 film holders. It comes in it's original Calumet case with it's original 1971 receipt. (I waited all day for the price to go up like the Kodak that sold yesterday and can't wait any more). Good solid camera and a classic lens.

Oh, and my $ is on the old 240 covering but just barely. Fuzzy corners but illuminated none the less. It's not that different from a 127 on 4X5.

8x10 camera suggestions please

Buster6X6

John Koehrer

Ole

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Nick Zentena

Daniel Grenier

John Kasaian

Buster6X6

Ole

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rbarker

WarEaglemtn

JackRosa

Will S

Peter Schrager

DeanC

Ray Bidegain

Ray Bidegain

photomc

colrehogan

Mongo

Buster6X6

Craig

Ole

Moderator

jimgalli

8x10 camera suggestions please

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