8x10 - camera shake from triggering the shutter?

bvy · May 14, 2018

Now that I'm moving away from strobes and into the field with my 8x10, I'm wondering if I need to worry about camera shake with a large format camera. This one is equipped with an Ilex #5 shutter -- it doesn't exactly rock the camera but it does have some recoil. My concerns are: 1.) Even though I had it professionally CLA'd, the fastest shutter speed is about one stop off. Specifically 1/50 is closer to 1/30; and 2.) I don't have a cable release. I've bought two so far and neither has a throw long enough to trigger the shutter. I don't know if I want to manually handle (i.e. touch) the shutter to trigger it for fear of jolting it too much. I'm open to suggestions here.

Thanks.

Vaughn · May 14, 2018

I have been without a cable release a few times in the past 40 years -- don't like tripping the shutter(s) by hand, but so far no noticible shaking on the camera. Position one's hand so that pushing the shutter is countered with a finger on the opposite side of the shutter. Keep an eye out for a long-throw cable release...older ones are out there.

I never have had worries about the shutter causing vibrations. Mostly Copals, but also some older varieties.

Ian Grant · May 14, 2018

I have about 30 maybe 40 shutter release cables and only a few differ from the rest having a long throw. I need a very long throw for a Gitzo shutter and only have one release that will work with it.

It's a US thing not to restore shutter speeds with a CLA, all my UK shutter repairs are accurate after a CLA and I've never heard of being given a chart of actual speed compared to marked speed. However a UK CLA is much more expensive and includes a complete shutter disassembly and then a rebuild, maybe this is why even Leica (as a company) get their own collection's restorations etc done here.

US LF shutters like the Betax, Alphax and Illex are abnormally large and crudely engineered compared to similar sized German Compound shutter, they didn't need to be Wollensak made some great early shutters but none were really scaled up that successfully to the larger sizes. I have quite a few and they are the least reliable. Compurs are the most reliable along with Compounds - same manufacturer.

Ian

Vaughn · May 14, 2018

Ian Grant said:
I have about 30 maybe 40 shutter release cables and only a few differ from the rest having a long throw. I need a very long throw for a Gitzo shutter and only have one release that will work with it...Ian

And I am keeping the one or two that I have!

shutterfinger · May 14, 2018

The standard cable release throw is 5/8 inch, a long throw is 3/4 inch. You need the long throw. Check the specifications before buying or as the seller what the throw length is.

Ian Grant said:
It's a US thing not to restore shutter speeds with a CLA, all my UK shutter repairs are accurate after a CLA and I've never heard of being given a chart of actual speed compared to marked speed. However a UK CLA is much more expensive and includes a complete shutter disassembly and then a rebuild, maybe this is why even Leica (as a company) get their own collection's restorations etc done here.

Shutters not running the marked speed after clean, lube, reassembly is the springs are worn or weakened with wear on the pivots a distant second. Most repair facilitates do not have the tooling necessary to make new springs. Springs provide the power needed to move the components. The speed ring on some shutters can be staked or filed down to set the delay position so the speeds are correct. Staking is very time consuming and 0.001 inch can make the difference between in tolerance and 3/4 stop out.

A solid tripod that does not transmit vibration is more important than a cable release. Positioning ones hand so that the shutter can be released smoothly without putting pressure on the shutter or lens board/front standard is very important also and may take some practice.

DREW WILEY · May 14, 2018

Some big shutters can definitely affect sharpness due to vibration, depending on how well your camera can dampen it. A weak front standard, wobbly tripod head, underbuilt tripod, or even cable release with a kink in it can be a problem. In the field you also have to be highly attuned to what the wind is doing.

bvy · May 15, 2018

Thanks everyone. I think I'm back to looking for a cable with a long throw. The last one I bought (a Gepe) was supposed to work but didn't. I seem to recall that I was also looking for a "long" long throw cable release (i.e. 3 feet or longer) but maybe that's too ambitious.

Alan Gales · May 15, 2018

I've got newer cloth covered Gepe releases which are long throw and work with my 14" Commercial Ektar which is in an Ilex #5. I bought mine from B&H. They do not say long throw on B&H's site. I've also got old Prontors which are even longer throw than the Gepes. The Prontors you have to find used on Ebay.

silveror0 · May 15, 2018

As a last resort you could also have one custom made by these folks in Germany.
http://www.drahtauslöser.com/ESITE/

I've heard they are the makers of Gepe's (don't know if that's true). Using a wire of appropriate diameter, you should be able to determine the throw necessary to trip your shutter, then add a bit extra. With this info, they should be able to accommodate you (cost ?).

Alan Gales · May 15, 2018

silveror0 said:
As a last resort you could also have one custom made by these folks in Germany.
http://www.drahtauslöser.com/ESITE/

I've heard they are the makers of Gepe's (don't know if that's true).

I've heard the same.

Arklatexian · May 15, 2018

bvy said:
Now that I'm moving away from strobes and into the field with my 8x10, I'm wondering if I need to worry about camera shake with a large format camera. This one is equipped with an Ilex #5 shutter -- it doesn't exactly rock the camera but it does have some recoil. My concerns are: 1.) Even though I had it professionally CLA'd, the fastest shutter speed is about one stop off. Specifically 1/50 is closer to 1/30; and 2.) I don't have a cable release. I've bought two so far and neither has a throw long enough to trigger the shutter. I don't know if I want to manually handle (i.e. touch) the shutter to trigger it for fear of jolting it too much. I'm open to suggestions here.

Thanks.

Have you considered using a pneumatic (bulb and tube arrangement) shutter release? I have found that they frequently have a longer "throw" than a standard cable release. There are some that can be cut to a length where you don't touch the camera when tripping the shutter. I am assuming that they are still available. I don't mean the really old ones with the red bulb and red hose......Regards!

Tom Taylor · May 22, 2018

My Ilex #5 shutters require a long throw cable release which I found new at a local photo supply store. Take your shutter with you and the staff will let you try them out before purchasing. The ones I bought for the Ilex are cloth covered and ran around 15-$20 each (I purchased both a short and long versions - the latter for tripping the shutter from the camera back). However those weren't long enough to trip the #5 Alphax shutter on the 14 inch Wollensak Veritar. After trying several used releases from the used drawer it turned out that a new vinyl covered Samigon had the longest throw which was sufficient for the shutter. Interesting to note that I original thought the shutter needed repair and brought it in the in-house repair guy who specializes in shutters. he couldn't find anything wrong with it and suggested I look for a cable release downstairs where I found one that works. There was no charge for the shutter inspection. That was at Seawood Photo in San Rafael, CA if you're in the neighborhood.

Thomas

8x10 - camera shake from triggering the shutter?

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