8x10 acceptable bellows length

chuck94022 · May 18, 2005

Perhaps a silly question, but what would you 8x10 shooters consider the minimum acceptable bellows length when buying your first 8x10 camera? Unfortunately I'm starting to get "that itch", and have been prowling the usual used sources. Is a 19" maximum too limiting?

This would be mostly field work, not studio work, though I would probably want to do some macro work with it, and would be frustrated if the bellows length precluded that. I have found the maximum length of my Wista 4x5 (about 300mm) to be a little restrictive, but I tolerate it.

wfwhitaker · May 18, 2005

chuck94022 said:
...I would probably want to do some macro work with it, and would be frustrated if the bellows length precluded that. I have found the maximum length of my Wista 4x5 (about 300mm) to be a little restrictive, but I tolerate it.

I think you answered your own question. Base your decisions upon your experience.

colrehogan · May 18, 2005

I measured the bellows length on my Ansco 8x10 some time ago and recall that it was 29 inches. My longest lens is 420 mm and I can still focus easily with it.

JG Motamedi · May 18, 2005

You indicate that a 4x5 with 12" bellows is a bit short. Figure that with this bellows length you can do 1:1 with a normal 6" lens. An 8x10 with 24" bellows will be the same, 1:1 with a 12" lens. So, figure you need at least 24" if not more. The 19" camera won't do it.

Nick Zentena · May 18, 2005

Will the macro stuff be in the field? If not why not go for two cameras. A lighter easier to carry field camera with shorter bellows. A big heavy monorail with long bellows for home.

If you really needed massive bellows then you could try carrying the monorail-) Mine really isn't much heavier then my Ansco but the rail is huge. 40"? Or is it more.

George Losse · May 18, 2005

Chuck,

I started with a camera that had 20 or 21 inches of bellows draw. It worked fine for me for a number of years. I was doing landscapes and studio figure work. After about 5 years, I knew that the format was a good fit for me, so I bought a newer camera with much larger bellows draw, I think 34 inches.

The way your looking at getting into 8x10 is smart. I had some good advice given to me when I started in 8x10, "put you money into your glass. The wooden box, will be upgraded if/when you can afford it, but you don't want to have to buy your glass more then once."

Also remember smaller lenses can be used for close up work. I think View Camera just had an article about using smaller then normal lenses for close work in large formats.

chuck94022 · May 18, 2005

Thanks for the quick responses! I've been eyeing a couple of cameras on eBay. One is a B&J "Commercial". It looks pretty solid, no bellows length is stated, but it looks to be somewhere between 25-30". There' another that is pretty but looks to only extend to 19" (limited by the body, not the bellows). So that one is out. I'm not sure the B&J will stay down at the level I want to pay, and I really don't want to rush on this, so for the moment I'll probably just watch and learn.

rbarker · May 18, 2005

You might also want to consider the trade-offs of the longer bellows, Chuck - particularly the weight specs. I ended up getting a double-extension Tachihara, rather than the triple-extension mostly because of the weight difference and the difference in price (new). The 550mm or so of bellows on the DE Tachi is sufficient for the 450mm and 16 ½ lenses I have, which are the extreme end of my kit. And, it's fine for 1:1 macro with the 240mm G Claron I use.

The other option, of course, would be a more modular camera with interchangeable bellows. But the choices in that category were more than I wanted to spend.

Mongo · May 18, 2005

If you're planning on doing macro work, then the more bellows the better. (Of course, you can always use a 90mm lens to do macro work with an 8x10, if you don't mind getting very close to your subject.) 30" has turned out to be a very good length for me.

smieglitz · May 18, 2005

chuck94022 said:
Thanks for the quick responses! I've been eyeing a couple of cameras on eBay. One is a B&J "Commercial". It looks pretty solid...

You may find the B&J cameras are not the best for stability. (I have several models: Commercial; Grover; Rembrandts, in a variety of formats to 11x14). You may have to reinforce the standards to get adequate rigidity for some applications.

OTOH, you might keep an eye out for an old Agfa Commercial View. I think you could score one on eBay in decent shape in the $350-450 range if you get it at the right time. I think this is a much more stable camera at a bargain price. The extension rail is also built in which is a nice feature. I have a 5x7 Agfa which is a very nice camera. (Even though I never use it anymore since I like the 5x7 Deardorff better.) I believe the 5x7 will extend about 19" and the 8x10 will probably go more like 24" but be sure to check this with any seller.

Joe

argon · May 20, 2005

I'm going to get into some real heresy here...if you're worried about doing any closeup work...and if you think that it's going to be something that you probably won't be doing very often...how about finding some diopters (auxilliary "close-up" lenses). If you're shooting large format and you find diopters of adequate quality the difference in the final product would be hard to spot. You don't need a long bellows extension and no calculating for bellows factor.
This is at least worth a try if you've got limited bellows extension and want to dabble in close up work. I've done this with my Horesman technical camera and it's held up well in the enlargements.

best

argon

smieglitz · May 20, 2005

argon said:
...no calculating for bellows factor...
argon

I don't believe this is correct. I've used diopters and they change the effective focal length of the lens which should require a different extension and consequently, a different exposure (extension) factor. The marked f/stops will not be accurate with diopters.

There was an article in View Camera about a year ago on the technique which may be worth reading if you are going to pursue this technique.

Joe

8x10 acceptable bellows length

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