8mm ciné camera issue

[Theo Sulphate]

In a current thread about Kodachrome, I posted "this article " about the 40 year old regular 8mm film in my camera.

A few days later, I attempted to expose the remainder of the roll.

Seemingly fully wound, the motor ran for a few seconds and stopped. I couldn't get it to run again. My only thought was that perhaps the spring-wound motor had seized, possibly due to rust over 40 years.

Left with no choice, I went into a dark closet at night and wound the film onto the take-up spool. It also confirmed that indeed - I had used only 10 feet of film, so 40 feet remained unexposed (about 3 minutes). Anyway, after tucking the film away, what surprised me is that the camera ran perfectly again.

What could have happened? Perhaps the film got kinked after 40 years? When I first tried it, after 40 years, it did run for about five seconds before stopping.

Here is the camera, a Mansfield Emdeko ZE-II Reflex Zoom:

 

[Lee Rust]

I had a similar problem with a spring wound 8mm camera. My guess is that the lubrication of the mechanism is gummed up to the extent that it sounds like it's working fine when it's empty, but with the added strain of pulling the film through the gate and the drag of the loaded take-up and supply reels, everything comes to a halt.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Could you tell if the film was kinked or torn?
I'm rather impressed it ran at all, after sitting static for four decades.
You can try this, assuming the film is not in the camera - first gently warm the camera, then run the spring out. When you rewind it, do it slowly and feel/listen for any binding or "jumping" of the spring, the coils could be binding due to the lubrication being squeezed out over the years, warming & cycling the camera might redistribute lubricants, both in the spring barrel & the rest of the mechanism.

 

[ic-racer]

I don't know anything about super 8 but one of my regular-8 cameras had a weak take-up spool. This caused the film to bunch up. Take up spools, since they run at continuously varying RPM as they spool up, need to be on a slipper clutch. This mechanism can become faulty; either too tight or too loose.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, this is Regular 8mm with two separate spools. I could not detect any obvious kinking in the film as I rewound it. It makes sense that the lubricants would have dried out and there would be problems under the load of pulling film. It seems to be smooth with no load.

It's actually easy to disassemble, so I may do that - or have it serviced. I have a Bolex 160 Super 8 that needs to go to Switzerland first.

 

[1L6E6VHF]

In a current thread about Kodachrome, I posted "this article " about the 40 year old regular 8mm film in my camera.

A few days later, I attempted to expose the remainder of the roll.

Seemingly fully wound, the motor ran for a few seconds and stopped. I couldn't get it to run again. My only thought was that perhaps the spring-wound motor had seized, possibly due to rust over 40 years.

Left with no choice, I went into a dark closet at night and wound the film onto the take-up spool. It also confirmed that indeed - I had used only 10 feet of film, so 40 feet remained unexposed (about 3 minutes). Anyway, after tucking the film away, what surprised me is that the camera ran perfectly again.

What could have happened? Perhaps the film got kinked after 40 years? When I first tried it, after 40 years, it did run for about five seconds before stopping.

Here is the camera, a Mansfield Emdeko ZE-II Reflex Zoom:

View attachment 199021

Perhaps one possibility is that the film base between the feed spool to the gate, and the film base between the gate and the take-up spool, hardened in curves. When you tried to run the film through the gate, the hard film became stuck and the motor could no longer turn.
When you rearranged the film, the hard bends became relocated to the take-up spool.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

...
When you rearranged the film, the hard bends became relocated to the take-up spool.

I'm sorry - my original posting wasn't clear. After the film ran for a few seconds, it stopped completely. Then I went into a dark closet and removed the film completely, winding it all on the take-up spool. With the camera totally empty, it runs fine.

 

[Brian Schmidt]

Hello,

If the issue comes down to the spring binding up I've found a good way to lubricate the spring barrels without opening the barrel. I've used this on a Revere 88 and a Keystone K8 with good outcomes. This should work if the spring is held captive in the barrel behind a plate, by screws, rivets, tabs or what have you.

The springs are packed with graphite grease from the factory which as you've found dries out. Remove the barrel from the mechanism (DON'T remove the spring from the barrel!). Find a piece of tubing like fuel line or clear PVC tubing like they use for fish tanks that fits over the bushing that the arbor pokes out of so the tubing encapsulates the gap between the bushing and the arbor. This should be about 6" long. Put about a cap full of Dex Merc or Type F Automatic Transmission Fluid into this tubing after putting it over the bushing. Use very low pressure compressed air or a cut off valve stem in the other end of the tube with a bicycle pump to blow the oil into the spring barrel. It may take a bit of exercising to get the clumps of the old grease broken up. It's worked like a charm for me and the spring doesn't jump as it did. Just be careful not to blow the oil everywhere. Be sure to hold the tube firmly on the barrel.

Brian