80/2.8 or 110/2.8 lens for Mamiya 645

[altair]

I have the option of buying an M645 Super with either tge 80/2.8 or 110/2.8 lens. I think both are C lenses. Which one should I go for? I can only afford one. I've read that some people say the 110 is outstanding, while others say it's just decent. I mainly do streetshots and close up portraits, so closest focusing distance is important to me.

Also, included in the kit is the 'Prism N'. What is the difference between this prism and the plain vanilla
prism?

I'd appreciate any feedback. Thanks in advance.

-Dani

 

[CGW]

The 110 doesn't grow on trees and is usually a bit pricey; the 80 is cheap and widely available. The 110 is a very nice short portrait lens. Why not get the 110 now and an inexpensive 80 or even a 55 later? Isn't the Prism N metered and the plain one not?

 

[altair]

CGW: thanks for your input, i tend to agree with your suggestion. But how does the 110 compare image quality-wise to the 80/2.8? Sharper, better OOF areas?

Re: the prism N, I have no idea. I havent looked at manuals yet, but info seems to be sparse on the innernet.

 

[CGW]

I find the 80/2.8 to be pin-sharp, as is the 110 and even the 150. The real difference is in min. focus distance. For the 80(70cm); the 110(120cm); and the 150/3.5(150cm). The early model prisms for the Super look much the same except for the dials on the metered model. Both are reasonably bright. In 35mm terms, the 80 is close to 50mm; the 110 about 68mm; and the 150 about 93mm. Both the 80mm and 150mm are very common and usually cheap. Both the 110 and especially the 80/1.9 are way pricier.

 

[tomalophicon]

The 80 is an awesome lens. I dn't have any experience with the 110 but do use the 150 quite frequently too.
The good thng in your case is that thee 80 is small and light. It would do well with street shooting. You can crop alot with the big negative while retaining good image quality.

 

[tkamiya]

80mm is pretty much the "standard" lens, just like 50mm lens on 35mm cameras. If it is going to be your ONLY lens, I'd recommend it. I have no experience with 110mm.

I have 80mm f/2.8 and 150mm f/3.5. They are both very sharp, certainly sharp enough for every use I've encountered so far. I don't think you'll have anything to complain about. While you can buy these REALLY cheaply these days, they are/were pro grade lens people paid hundreds when new. You are getting really great stuff for cheap!

 

[JonPorter]

Get the 110mm

I have both the 110mm and 80mm and they're equally fine. But the 110mm is one of my all-time favorite lenses. It's really just a slightly long "normal" lens, equal to about a 70mm lens on a 35mm camera. It's wonderful for portraits or for getting just a bit more distance from your subject when working with studio lights. I get around the minimum focusing distance with a B+W +1 close-up lens. It lets me get as close as I can hand-hold the camera.

 

[2F/2F]

I'd get the 110. The 80 is common and cheap as dirt, and the 110 can be a very useful focal length. I love the 105 for the Mamiya TLR system, and I also use the 80. I sold the 105, but not because I considered it redundant; just because I wanted to get one in better condition, and recoup some of the cost of the kit in which I got the lens. I am sure the 110 is a fine lens in terms of sharpness and what have you, as every lens in any decent medium format system that I have tried is just fine in this area.

 

[MattKing]

In essence, I gave my 80mm lens away (well, maybe one could describe it as a long term loan).

I find a 55mm, 110mm, 210mm kit to be really useful for the 645.

The 110mm works well with an extension tube.

 

[borisdeswan]

I second the thoughts that favor the 110mm over the "normal" 80mm. I've found both of them to be optically very good, allthough the 110, impresses me more and I found it more usefull, specially for portraits and small things w/ ext. tube or c/up lens. A nice outfit can be made with the 35,55,110 and a 210 or 300mm lenses that would give just about everything.Good luck

 

[altair]

All, thanks for all the very helpful & informative replies, I appreciate it very much. CGW, your info on the min focusing distance for both lenses is very welcome, thanks. JPorter, can you tell me where to get a +1 closeup lens for the M645? I think i might need one.

Looks like I'll splurge and get both the 80 and 110. The 80 is indeed very cheap. I just love the 80 on my C220, i find it to be sharp as heck and I'm hoping the one for the 646 will be too. If I manage to scrounge a bit more money, I might get the 55 too.

 

[MattKing]

All, thanks for all the very helpful & informative replies, I appreciate it very much. CGW, your info on the min focusing distance for both lenses is very welcome, thanks. JPorter, can you tell me where to get a +1 closeup lens for the M645? I think i might need one.

Looks like I'll splurge and get both the 80 and 110. The 80 is indeed very cheap. I just love the 80 on my C220, i find it to be sharp as heck and I'm hoping the one for the 646 will be too. If I manage to scrounge a bit more money, I might get the 55 too.

altair:

To give you some perspective on these close focus issues, I just did a rough check on the close focus capability of my 110 mm lens. At closest focus, a subject that is 36 cm x 47 cm fills the viewfinder. In comparison, the UK site for Mamiya indicates that at closest focus, the 80mm lens covers a subject that is 28 cm x 38 cm.

As for the closeup filters, there are lots on eBay - here is a Hong Kong example (not sure if they ship to Malaysia):

http://cgi.ebay.ca/58mm-Close-Up-Le...3869270?pt=Camera_Filters&hash=item3360976f56

 

[CGW]

With respect, I'd skip el cheapo close-up sets. Bluntly put, they're junk. For close-up diopters, go for the dual element types from, say, Canon or Nikon. Nikon makes a 62mm(5T or 6T) diopter. Use a step ring to adapt it to your 58mm Mamiya lenses. Problem is, they're not cheap nor totally easy to find since Nikon discontinued them a few years ago. Though it will cost you about 1.5 stops, a Mamiya extension tube might be the mostest for the leastest when it comes to decreasing minimum focus distance. They're usually about $20-40 on the big auction site. Here's one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/MAMIYA-M645-PRO...41594?pt=Lens_Accessories&hash=item35abf6bfda

 

[MattKing]

CGW is right about the relative quality of extension tubes vs. close-up sets.

I look at the close-up sets as emergency backups, when you need to pare the size and weight of your kit to a minimum, or need to switch them on and off fast.

In fact, I don't know that I can easily locate the close-up lens I have for my 645 equipment - it has been used so infrequently.

I have other MF cameras that have built in bellows and are therefore better suited to switching back and forth between distant work and close-up work. If I did a lot more close-up work, and needed to use my 645 equipment for it, I'd consider a macro lens instead.

By the way, I find that the minimum focus distance on the 110mm lens is fine for head and shoulder portraits.

 

[tkamiya]

One thing OP *can* do is to obtain a set of close-up RINGS. They can be had for about 100 dollars US for set of 3. When all of them are used at the same time, with 80mm, you can focus as close as to obtain 1:1, which is pretty darn close.... I have a set.

One thing to keep in mind is that they are pain in a butt. One must remove the lens, attach the ring, then reattach the whole thing to the body. The larger ring used, more close up, but it also hinders the ability to focus far. So one can get into a situation where you can't get FAR enough. Then you must take it apart, remove the ring, then reattach, then recompose.

Quality isn't hindered because there are no optics in extension rings. They are just hollow.

I *think* if one would want to focus close, the real macro lens are the way to go. Anything else, you'll have to compromise somewhere.

 

[CGW]

"One thing to keep in mind is that they are pain in a butt. One must remove the lens, attach the ring, then reattach the whole thing to the body. The larger ring used, more close up, but it also hinders the ability to focus far. So one can get into a situation where you can't get FAR enough. Then you must take it apart, remove the ring, then reattach, then recompose."

Ever actually used these? Extension tubes and/or diopters are for close-up work when infinity focus, er, isn't really a concern. Yes, you have to put 'em on and take 'em off-yup.

 

[tkamiya]

Yes... I used these... just a week ago in fact. That time, I was chasing butterflies with it - One shot, I had the butterfly in extreme macro. That required the largest one. I wanted then to include what was around it - another flower. I backed off only a foot or so. Now, the focus range wasn't big enough to maintain focus. I had to quickly remove the whole set, put a smaller one, and retry. Of course, by then, the subject has flown off.

One does not need to try to focus to INFINITY to have this limitation. My point was, it's not a substitute for a real macro lens. I've been around long enough to know, with extension rings, one cannot focus on infinity. YES, I have used it.

 

[altair]

How does extension rings differ from extension tubes?

tkamiya: Are close up rings = extension rings?

 

[Jeff Kubach]

Get the 110 lens and get the other lens later on,

Jeff

 

[Pumalite]

Extension Tube + 80mm Lens in my humble opinion.

 

[altair]

Jeff: I already did, have both now.

Pumalite: Thanks for your input. Still wondering if ext tubes are the same thing as ext rings.

 

[fschifano]

Same thing. Extension tubes = extension rings.

 

[altair]

Thanks for the clarification, Frank.

 

[JonPorter]

To clarify further, close-up lenses and extension tubes are not the same thing. Close-up lenses are used to extend a lens' minimum focus for, say, a tighter head shot or detail shot while still hand-holding the camera. Extension tubes are used for macro work, require exposure compensation, and often don't have an auto diaphragm. And there's no image degradation if you use a quality brand close-up lens from B+W, Tiffin or Hoya.

 

[altair]

Thanks for your input Jon, I appreciate it.