8 bit vs. 16 bit

City Park Pond

H
City Park Pond

  • 0
  • 0
  • 9
Icy Slough.jpg

H
Icy Slough.jpg

  • 0
  • 0
  • 22
Roses

A
Roses

  • 7
  • 0
  • 116
Rebel

A
Rebel

  • 6
  • 4
  • 133
Watch That First Step

A
Watch That First Step

  • 2
  • 0
  • 92

Forum statistics

Threads
197,494
Messages
2,759,927
Members
99,517
Latest member
RichardWest
Recent bookmarks
0

Rick-in-LB

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Messages
57
Location
Long Beach C
Format
35mm
I was noticing in my scanning ,I have the option of 8 bit grayscale vs. 16 bit grayscale. Is there really a difference between the two? In addition if I open a scan, that was scanned in 16 bit grayscale,in CS4 some items in filter, layers and others are grayed out until I convert to 8 bit. The scanner is an Epson V500 and using the Epson Software. Any input in this one
Thanks
 

PVia

Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2006
Messages
1,058
Location
Pasadena, CA
Format
Multi Format
16 bit allows you much, much more in the way of adjustments without degrading the file as much as 8 bit does. The place I notice this the most is in making digital negatives...huge, huge difference in the result.

All my conversions from RAW files are now 16 bit, same as my film scans. Just make sure you have the computer power and memory to deal with the resulting files...
 

sanking

Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2003
Messages
5,437
Location
Greenville,
Format
Large Format
You want to always scan in 16 bit if you plan to make any adjustments to the image file in Photoshop. If you don't have a 16 bit option as some older scanners don't scan in 8 bit and then immediately convert to 16 bit before making any corrections or adjustments. This won't add tones but will prevent you from losing the ones you have.

Some operations in Photoshop can only be done in 8 bit. Save these for last in your adjustment of the image just before you convert to 8 bit for printing.

Sandy King


I was noticing in my scanning ,I have the option of 8 bit grayscale vs. 16 bit grayscale. Is there really a difference between the two? In addition if I open a scan, that was scanned in 16 bit grayscale,in CS4 some items in filter, layers and others are grayed out until I convert to 8 bit. The scanner is an Epson V500 and using the Epson Software. Any input in this one
Thanks
 

Masterview

Member
Joined
May 17, 2004
Messages
22
Doing anything in Photoshop chips away at your image file. An 8-bit file has 256 tonal levels per channel and 16-bit has 65,536. If you think about it like poker, everything you do in Photoshop is like putting in your ante. A $10 ante is a larger chunk of your $256 than it is your opponent's $65,536. Try to use the larger bit depth whenever possible.
 

erikhatt

Inactive
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
18
Format
Medium Format
My ICG365 makes beautiful scans. i Have the ScanExact 9.5 software, so i dont have the 16b option. But i do process some of my scans heavy in Adobe Photoshop. But i have heard rumours saying that ICG 8 bit-files is in a supreme quality. I also register tha most of the Pro-labs/studios who selling scans from drumscanners, deliver the files in 8bit to high-end customers.

Here is a scan i have done in 8bit and processed it in Adobe Photoshop:

http://www.tmax100.com/fashionimages/t1.jpg
 

imazursky

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2006
Messages
148
Location
New Rochelle
Format
ULarge Format
We deliver 90% of our drum scans in 8 bit (unless otherwise instructed).
Its perfectly fine for most work except when medium to heavy color correction work is needed and 8 bit wont do.
16 bit has its place, when we do archival work, digi negs, on certain color negs & chromes or a client requests it.
 
OP
OP
Rick-in-LB

Rick-in-LB

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Messages
57
Location
Long Beach C
Format
35mm
Very interesting information. I did a scan on 8 bit and 16 bit, under close checking I saw some difference on some colors/whites. It seemed the brown hued items did show up better, more tone in 16 bit. Mmm I guess I will have the instructor to explain why the grayed out items. For now I will keep the 16 bit B&W scans.
 

imazursky

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2006
Messages
148
Location
New Rochelle
Format
ULarge Format
I think it makes a more of a difference on scans made on flatbed scanners.
The newer versions of Photoshop like CS4 have greater set of features that are compatible with 16 bit files. Older versions are very limited.
If you are going to work with large 16 bit files, i would recommend that you invest in as much RAM as you can afford.
 

pellicle

Member
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
1,175
Location
Finland
Format
4x5 Format
Rik

I sort of thought that Sandy had covered this, but I notice some inputs which I think make clarification of your question and their answers important. Firstly much depends on the scanner you are using (and you say you are using an Epson, me too). Some scanners (not ours) have the ability to adjust lamp light intensity and the analog gain of the system to enable the scanner operator to tune the device to get the useful dark and useful light areas of the film you intend to scan.

In contrast to this the Epsons can't adjust much (well I think there is a sort of short cut into that as I've written on my blog here however I've also noticed that similar effects can be had by forcing the blue channel slider all the way to the black in colour work too). So when you scan something you will probably only get a portion of what you need in the range of the scanner. This varies from film to film. The Epsons seem to be optimised around Slide (which is not a bad thing). For example, with black and white negative I get a result like this:

denseKoalaHisto.jpg


There isn't much need for the stuff on either end, so this will be truncated by adjusting the level sliders (the little black and white triangles left and right of the histogram).

Now, this can be done in Photoshop or it can be done in the scanner driver software. Photoshop provides some useful tools to set the clipping points visually so people may just leave it were it is and touch up in Photoshop. This is where having only 8 bit scans will run you aground, as you will get some posterisation or banding occuring (especially if the range you have on your neg (like if it was a C-41 chromogenic neg) is not as wide as this one.

Now, if you were to trim up in the scanner driver (and the scanner and driver is smart) it should be smart enough to do this in 16 bits internally then dish up an 8 bit result with greater precision.

I think now is a good time to mention that 8 bits is a string of 8 digits which can be either a 1 or a 0 (right?) so the number 256 (in base 10) requires 9 bits but if you don't mind counting 0 as a value then 8 bits will work for representing 256 levels (or 0 to 255). So when you 'strech' the histogram you are not going to get neat values on subtle tonal graduations. Essentially think of this as: if you divide 5 by 2 you'll get either 2 or 3 but not 2.5 (as it won't exist). So you will need the extra precision of 16 bits when adjusting your raw scan to avoid this as it can then interpolate a value

Now, its when you work with colour negatve that you have your biggest challenge. You may not have looked, but if you do a linear positive scan of your colour negative you may see something like this

levelsPresent.jpg


notice how little blue there is in there? So you are unavoidably going to be stretching that when you scan. If you don't have one of the above mentioned scanners (with the capacity to tune your sampling) then you're gonna get banding and noise in your scans (pepper grain with that anyone?). Now like it or not it is exactly this data which your scanner will have to work with, so whether you use 'home mode' or 'professional mode' and tell the scanner that you are using colour negative (instead of positive) the software will work with the same thing as you see in a linear positive scan. The difference is that you're (hopefully) more intuitive and programmable than the machine is, so by scanning in positive and inverting, assigning profiles, adjusting, tweaking yourself you'll get a better result (which is why you should never send a machine to do a humans work).

Well, I don't want to really dribble on here for ever, so I'll leave it here for now, hopefully you can see that while it is possible to use 8 bit scans well (if you have a drum scanner) it is better to tune your scans a little in the software, then tune them in photo editing software in 16 bits. At this point you can certainly save space by saving in 8 bits (as minor tweaks will be unlikely to produce banding). From here you can work in 8 bits (with all your major levels / curves adjustments done) especially as you say that some of your preferred filters only work in 8 bits.

If you read those links it'll perhaps help you understand more (and since you're an Epson user I recommend this page of mine too if you do colour negative).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom