7x17 problems. Please help.

Andrew Keedle · Aug 20, 2020

I've been slowly resurrecting my Ritter 7x17 and getting back in the flow of things and working through issues trying to isolate and fix. I started with some expired Era 100 in Paranol S developing 2 negatives at a time in a Jobo 2850 with acceptable results. Then I tried some expired HP5 again in Paranol S and I got what I though were development issues of extra density caused by flow in the tank. It was reasonably minor but detectable.

Then this happened yesterday. The attached are just major light leaks? That couldn't be produced by over agitation issues and bromide drag because of the ridges in the tank? What confuses me is that the "leaks" are opposite and given I'm pretty sure I loaded the holders correctly that doesn't make sense.

Can anyone shed any light on this? I'm rather pulling my hair out trying to work out if the issues I'm having are the camera, the holder, the film, the processing or my handling. All the equipment and film have been mothballed to the last 10 years so I am expecting issues...

Thanks

Keith Pitman · Aug 20, 2020

I’ll be watching this thread to see what you discover. To me, it looks like a combination of film holder and camera light leaks. Those at the top appear to be from around the light trap on the holder. After loading film in the holder, I place black tape over the intersection of the light trap and the sides of the holder.

The larger areas would seem to be from the camera. I would check everything with a flashlight test with particular attention to whether the film holder is seating correctly in the camera.

Please post the results of your investigation.

PFGS · Aug 20, 2020

I don't have any solutions (I'm not a LF shooter) but I just wanted to say, sorry you are having trouble with these now as I've really been enjoying your 7x17 work on Instagram, especially the trees.

Tom Kershaw · Aug 20, 2020

I suffered something similar when part of my Walker Titan SF camera had worked slightly free (a simple fix) and I wasn't achieving a full light tight fit between the film holder and camera when manipulating the darkslide / pulling the holder out of the camera.

Vaughn · Aug 20, 2020

Those were fogged in-camera (or at least while the film was in the holders), otherwise, you would not have clear film rebates. Looks like the holder got pulled back a little when you pulled the darkslide out.

I had that problem with a Ritter 7x17, also.

Donald Qualls · Aug 20, 2020

Also, at the upper ends (flap end), there's a shadow of the holder flap and frame cast by the light leak. I agree with Vaughn.

Sirius Glass · Aug 20, 2020

Rather than waste film, you could use photographic paper to locate problems. First test just the holders. Once you have eliminated any problems there move on to the camera.

Andrew Keedle · Aug 20, 2020

Thanks for all your comments. I agree there appears to be a number of things going on here. As these were shot vertical in tricky conditions with the top of camera back above head height I favour an issue with me pulling the film holder away from the body when removing/inserting the dark slide. I will try those same holders/sides and carefully pinch the camera back when handling the dark slides. I will have to have another look at the dark slide light seals as I have already had to tweak those.

I'm casting no aspersions on Richards handiwork. This camera has been left mothballed for the last decade and I fully expect issues recommissioning this. I'll developed the duplicate exposures and hope that my handling was better in those cases.

Andrew Keedle · Aug 20, 2020

PFGS said:
I don't have any solutions (I'm not a LF shooter) but I just wanted to say, sorry you are having trouble with these now as I've really been enjoying your 7x17 work on Instagram, especially the trees.

Thanks for the kind words. It's a little frustrating but at least I have a stash of expired film that I can view as having been written off to experiment with. If this was costing £10 a shot to get back up to speed I wouldn't be doing it!

Vaughn · Aug 20, 2020

Setting up ULF too high is a hard habit to break...it is so nice standing straight up and looking at the GG of a vertical 11x14 or 7x17! But then one has getting the darkslide out and back in above one's head without mucking it up!

Hmmm...little clips that lock the GG and filmholder tight to the camera back, then easily clip off to slid out the holder. Might even be nice for my old 5x7.

David A. Goldfarb · Aug 20, 2020

I thought the same--camera set up too high, and pulling the back open when removing the darkslide. Options are to use a stepladder or set up the camera with the darkslide pointing down for verticals.

bdial · Aug 21, 2020

Are the holders flat?
I think some folks have had problems with holders warping.

Andrew Keedle · Aug 21, 2020

Thanks everybody for all the comments and suggestions. I have developed the duplicate sheets and one has similar but less severe issues and one is good. My conclusion is that I pulled the filmholder whilst removing/inserting the darkslides. Will definitely take care with this in future and also attempt inserting from below rather than above next time I attempt a vertical. I will also look at the hinge tape as there does seem to be persistent issues with that. Any more issues and I'll get hold of some paper and test all the holders as suggested. Many thanks again, you are all most helpful!

Vaughn · Aug 21, 2020

Excellent! Holders are designed (or are suppose to be designed) to be light-tight without hinge tape...one just does not want the hinge to fall off the holder.

I was using 14x17 x-ray film cut down to fit.

David A. Goldfarb · Aug 21, 2020

Looking good!

Donald Qualls · Aug 22, 2020

Nice!

Sirius Glass · Aug 22, 2020

I love it when combined suggestion lead to success at ~~APUG~~ Photrio.

dodphotography · Aug 23, 2020

Andrew Keedle said:
I've been slowly resurrecting my Ritter 7x17 and getting back in the flow of things and working through issues trying to isolate and fix. I started with some expired Era 100 in Paranol S developing 2 negatives at a time in a Jobo 2850 with acceptable results. Then I tried some expired HP5 again in Paranol S and I got what I though were development issues of extra density caused by flow in the tank. It was reasonably minor but detectable.

Then this happened yesterday. The attached are just major light leaks? That couldn't be produced by over agitation issues and bromide drag because of the ridges in the tank? What confuses me is that the "leaks" are opposite and given I'm pretty sure I loaded the holders correctly that doesn't make sense.

Can anyone shed any light on this? I'm rather pulling my hair out trying to work out if the issues I'm having are the camera, the holder, the film, the processing or my handling. All the equipment and film have been mothballed to the last 10 years so I am expecting issues...

Thanks

View attachment 252805 View attachment 252806

This is interesting... I had the same issue using a Canham 11x14 with Ritter Holders. While removing the darkslide the holder actually become unseated. I knew it was done during the removal of the darkslide because I ALWAYS run my finger along the bottom edge to ensure it’s fully seated.

Does your Ritter have a bail? Also, are you using Ritter holders?

Andrew Keedle · Aug 24, 2020

dodphotography said:
This is interesting... I had the same issue using a Canham 11x14 with Ritter Holders. While removing the darkslide the holder actually become unseated. I knew it was done during the removal of the darkslide because I ALWAYS run my finger along the bottom edge to ensure it’s fully seated.

Does your Ritter have a bail? Also, are you using Ritter holders?

Hey, my Ritter does have a bail and I am using Ritter holders. I don't think it's an issue with the equipment, just my poor technique.

Richard T Ritter · Aug 24, 2020

It's very easy to pull the holder away from the back it happens most time near the end of the pulling out of the holder. It also happen when one try to insert the dark slide between the holder and back.

Andrew Keedle · Aug 25, 2020

Richard T Ritter said:
It's very easy to pull the holder away from the back it happens most time near the end of the pulling out of the holder. It also happen when one try to insert the dark slide between the holder and back.

Hey Richard! I hope people haven't got the wrong impression about your handiwork. None of the issues I've had are a reflection on you or the equipment, just my bad handling and relearning the steps and care needed. I'm loving getting the 7x17 back up and running. Thank you!

Andrew Keedle · Aug 25, 2020

With the extra care and attention I'm now getting good results. Also with the development using a handmade roller for more random rotation with the Jobo 2850 and using Moersch Finol. The negatives are crisp and clean and consistent.

Donald Qualls · Aug 25, 2020

Nice! I like that aspect ratio. For those on a budget, it's close to what you'd get with 35mm film in a 6x7 with the sprockets masked off -- only magnified 7x.

Vaughn · Aug 25, 2020

I decided to go with 11x14 and a modified darkslide to make 5.5x14 images instead of a dedicated panoramic camera. The Ritter cameras are great instraments.

Andrew Keedle · Aug 25, 2020

Vaughn said:
I decided to go with 11x14 and a modified darkslide to make 5.5x14 images instead of a dedicated panoramic camera. The Ritter cameras are great instraments.

Sounds cool. Do you have issues with light bleeding with the half darkslide? I'm assuming 2 images per sheet.

7x17 problems. Please help.

Andrew Keedle

Keith Pitman

PFGS

Tom Kershaw

Vaughn

Donald Qualls

Sirius Glass

Andrew Keedle

Andrew Keedle

Vaughn

David A. Goldfarb

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bdial

Andrew Keedle

Vaughn

David A. Goldfarb

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Donald Qualls

Sirius Glass

dodphotography

Andrew Keedle

Richard T Ritter

Andrew Keedle

Andrew Keedle

Donald Qualls

Vaughn

Andrew Keedle

7x17 problems. Please help.

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