777

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

I read that 777 developer do smooth the edges of silver clusters. Is this a special case or do D76 , HC110 , D23 do this ?

Umut

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Is it still possible to find 777 ?

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Is it still possible to find 777 ?

You order it from Bluegrass in Kentucky. No online ordering.

I think there's a sort of waiting list at this time. They're probably waiting to get enough orders to mix fresh.

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Thank you Michael and Thomas.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

A few things you should know about this developer.

1. It is used as a deep tank replenished developer.
2. It is expensive and the minumum size makes several gallons.
3. It contains paraphenylenediamine which is toxic and a known carcinogen. At the very least this chemical can cause severe dermatitis and is a cross-sensitizer.
4. AFAIK, there is no known MSDS for it and so you are operating blind as to its health risks.
5. You may have truble getting it shipped internationally.

You may ask why without a MSDS people know it contains PPD. The give away is the very distinctive smell of the developer.

 

[k_jupiter]

Is it still possible to find 777 ?

Or start here....

http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Harvey/harvey.html

tim in san jose

 

[Steve Smith]

You may ask why without a MSDS people know it contains PPD. The give away is the very distinctive smell of the developer.

I would ask how they are allowed to sell it without an MSDS. It wouldn't be allowed here.


Steve.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Isn't PPD mostly dangerous in powder form? Is it dangerous in liquid form also? From what I understand it's also used in hair dye.

When you buy the kits From Bluegrass, it comes in powder form, so you must use extreme caution and care when you mix it, so that NO dust of PPD is inhaled.

 

[eclarke]

My quest for info about 777 led me to a tiny little book by Morris Germain and his formula for Germain Finegrain, which had 7g Metol,7g PPD,70g Sodium Sulfite and 7g of Glycin.. It's been my first choice for all films for about six years now.

 

[c6h6o3]

777 proponents will argue it is not the same as Germain. It is also purportedly quite close in formulation to Edwal 12 (another Metol/PPD/Glycin sulfite formula). But again, people argue 777 is superior to Edwal 12. In what way specifically, it is never clear. It's one of those myth-status developers.

Bluegrass swears on a mile high stack of Bibles that there's no glycin in 777. I don't believe them. I believe it's glycin that gives it its unique qualities. As regards Mustafa's original question, the metol in any of the developers you mention tends to soften the edges, yielding smoothness and apparent grainlessness at the expense of accutance. That's why I've gone back to ABC pyro for most of my work. For portraits, though, you can't beat 777 for making the skin glow. Just look at Fred's portrait of Natalie in that Unblinkingeye article.

 

[removed account4]

Bluegrass swears on a mile high stack of Bibles that there's no glycin in 777.

you can say that again !

 

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

Is it possible to order an chemical analysis for 777 ? Who can do it and to what cost ?

 

[c6h6o3]

Is it possible to order an chemical analysis for 777 ? Who can do it and to what cost ?

I keep hoping that demand for 777 will dwindle to such an extent that Bluegrass will give up making it and release the formula. I don't know why they guard it so jealously. They can't be making any money out of it.

Having said that, let me make a standing offer to anyone qualified to make a chemical analysis of it that I will contribute a gallon of 777 to that effort. I have both unmixed powders and a seasoned gallon of liquid.

 

[removed account4]

hi jim

this is only a guess but maybe they guard the formula because it is a piece of photographic history
that if it becomes public domain people will forget it, or it just becomes another "one of those formulas"
everyone knows ... instead of having the mystique of defender/harvey's panthermic 777, only purchased at
bluegrass packaging in kentucky

john

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Isn't PPD mostly dangerous in powder form? Is it dangerous in liquid form also? From what I understand it's also used in hair dye.

When you buy the kits From Bluegrass, it comes in powder form, so you must use extreme caution and care when you mix it, so that NO dust of PPD is inhaled.

I experienced dermatitis from one of the early color developing agents, a derivative of PPD. This was from a color print developer solution. Itching was INTENSE and I had blisters the size of peas on my fingers for about 10 days. I was forced to give up color printing. It was curious that the developing agent I had been using was said to be safer than other color developing agents and PPD.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I experienced dermatitis from one of the early color developing agents, a derivative of PPD. This was from a color print developer solution. Itching was INTENSE and I had blisters the size of peas on my fingers for about 10 days. I was forced to give up color printing.

Wow, while wearing gloves?

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Wow, while wearing gloves?

No, but I was using tongs and a barrier cream..

 

[MaximusM3]

I keep hoping that demand for 777 will dwindle to such an extent that Bluegrass will give up making it and release the formula. I don't know why they guard it so jealously. They can't be making any money out of it.

Having said that, let me make a standing offer to anyone qualified to make a chemical analysis of it that I will contribute a gallon of 777 to that effort. I have both unmixed powders and a seasoned gallon of liquid.

AND...called them again last week, spoke to Laura, she said she would check with the higher powers, after she told me two months ago that they were entering production again, she said she would call me right back...and of course she didn't. Just sell me one kit, Jim!

 

[Paul Howell]

Is Photogapher's Formulary's 777 the same as 777 from Bluefire? I have used Formulary's clone of Edwal 12 and Bluefire's 777 but liked Edwal much better. I kept a tank of Edwal 12 going for 4 or 5 years before moving on use my existing stock of develoeprs but plan to return to Edwal 12 as soon as clean out my old stock. I used gloves and mask when using both developers, never exeprianced any reactions.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Is Photogapher's Formulary's 777 the same as 777 from Bluefire? I have used Formulary's clone of Edwal 12 and Bluefire's 777 but liked Edwal much better. I kept a tank of Edwal 12 going for 4 or 5 years before moving on use my existing stock of develoeprs but plan to return to Edwal 12 as soon as clean out my old stock. I used gloves and mask when using both developers, never exeprianced any reactions.

Dr Lowe published his formula for Developer 12.

Panthermic 777 formula has not been published, as far as I know, so there's no way of telling if they are the same. But, I seem to remember someone simply weighing the two kits, coming up with rather different weights, indicating they are actually fairly dissimilar in their composition.

 

[dr5chrome]

ISGO in LA was known for using this developer at their lab back when i 1st started in the 80s.

As I know it, it had a dedicated following, a love/hate developer.
It is not a small-take developer, and is very difficult to use.

dw

 

[c6h6o3]

ISGO in LA was known for using this developer at their lab back when i 1st started in the 80s.

As I know it, it had a dedicated following, a love/hate developer.
It is not a small-take developer, and is very difficult to use.

dw

It's not difficult to use but once you figure out what works for you, don't change anything. You must be completely consistent with it. I use it in trays. You don't have to have a deep tank. I do, however, use the entire gallon when developing 8x10s and I do no more than 2 at a time. It likes a lot of solution per sq. in. of film area.

@MaximusM3: I want to keep what I have (around 3 gallons worth of powders) as I don't know for sure that Bluegrass will make any more. However, I know someone who has some (and replenisher, too). I will be seeing this person in a couple of weeks so I will ask if he'll part with a gallon. I'll let you know.

Where are you located?

 

[MaximusM3]

It's not difficult to use but once you figure out what works for you, don't change anything. You must be completely consistent with it. I use it in trays. You don't have to have a deep tank. I do, however, use the entire gallon when developing 8x10s and I do no more than 2 at a time. It likes a lot of solution per sq. in. of film area.

@MaximusM3: I want to keep what I have (around 3 gallons worth of powders) as I don't know for sure that Bluegrass will make any more. However, I know someone who has some (and replenisher, too). I will be seeing this person in a couple of weeks so I will ask if he'll part with a gallon. I'll let you know.

Where are you located?

Thanks, Jim, if not too much trouble. I'm in NY. I will keep pestering Bluegrass until they either make it, or tell me to go to hell.

Max

 

[Gerald C Koch]

The question that must be asked about 777 and other "fossil" developers containing PPD or OPD. If they are so good then why don't more people use them. People are not beating a path to BPI's door. The answer is that these formulas are unnecessary with modern fine grain films. Indeed they can cause dichroic fog with some emulsions. Often the market place is the best arbiter of what is good and what is not.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

The question that must be asked about 777 and other "fossil" developers containing PPD or OPD. If they are so good then why don't more people use them. People are not beating a path to BPI's door. The answer is that these formulas are unnecessary with modern fine grain films. Indeed they can cause dichroic fog with some emulsions. Often the market place is the best arbiter of what is good and what is not.

The reason for using a developer like Edwal 12 is because of the tonality it renders. It was designed for flat Midwestern light, and gives a real intensity to the highlights that I haven't seen in other developers. Technically incorrect with a crooked tone curve (very strong s-curve), but very beautiful prints. I haven't been able to replicate it with other developers.