70's Full system 35mm

Paul Howell · May 31, 2017

A friend who has been shooting digital for many years wants to shoot film and is interested in a legacy pro level 70s camera. I explained that there is no absolute definition of what is or is not a pro level camera, he decided on a camera with interchange viewfinders, focusing screen, and motor drive. Ruling out Leica, Pentax and early 80s Contex I thought of Nikon F F2, Canon F1 New F1, Minolta XK motor, Topcon, and although not 70s Rolli 2000 and 3000. What have I left out?

Les Sarile · May 31, 2017

Paul Howell said:
Ruling out Leica, Pentax and early 80s Contex I thought of Nikon F F2, Canon F1 New F1, Minolta XK motor, Topcon, and although not 70s Rolli 2000 and 3000. What have I left out?

You may not have been familiar with the Pentax LX because it looks more like a non-interchangeable viewfinder in size compared to it's peers.

It is a pro system camera with a host of viewfinders, focusing screens, backs, motors and was the most weatherproofed of its peers.

Paul Howell · May 31, 2017

As I counted the Rolli 2000 and 3000 from the 80s ought to have included the LX as well. My friend is really set on a 70's camera, don't really understand it, but it is his money.

flavio81 · May 31, 2017

Paul Howell said:
A friend who has been shooting digital for many years wants to shoot film and is interested in a legacy pro level 70s camera. I explained that there is no absolute definition of what is or is not a pro level camera, he decided on a camera with interchange viewfinders, focusing screen, and motor drive. Ruling out Leica, Pentax and early 80s Contex I thought of Nikon F F2, Canon F1 New F1, Minolta XK motor, Topcon, and although not 70s Rolli 2000 and 3000. What have I left out?

Contax RTS and Leicaflexes are pro cameras, but they don't have interchangeable viewfinders, of course.

If you are including the Canon New F1, then you should include the Pentax LX and the Nikon F3. They were direct competitors against each other.

I think that between the Nikon F2, Canon New F1, Minolta XK, and Pentax LX, any choice is a great choice, and what will matter most is which lens system will he want to use.

MattKing · May 31, 2017

Olympus OM-1 and OM-2: http://omesif.moosemystic.net/om-sif/concepts.htm (note the system photo).
No interchangeable finders, but certainly everything else - especially if you are in to photo-micrography.
If the 1980s are included, all of the single digit bodies are eligible.

CMoore · May 31, 2017

How often do people change (or even have different) the viewfinder on their cameras.?
Is that something you guys do quite a bit.?
Thank You

MattKing · May 31, 2017

On my medium format cameras I do, because a waist level finder is best for many things, while an eye level prism is best for others.
The itty-bitty waist level finders for 35mm cameras are a bit of a challenge.
There are some viewfinders in the Nikon system that interest me almost enough to look at Nikon .

CMoore · May 31, 2017

Hey Matt -
Yeah, i was only thinking about 35mm. I am not familiar with all the brands (or any of them really).....but the F2 parts that people want...typically the S-SB-and AS are as expensive as the camera itself, if you can find one.
Just wondering..... in my limited experience, i had never really heard it discussed very much.
Thanks

Les Sarile · May 31, 2017

Paul Howell said:
My friend is really set on a 70's camera, don't really understand it, but it is his money.

And we would love to spend his money. If justification is needed, the LX, F3 & New F-1 were designed in the 70s . . .

Les Sarile · May 31, 2017

CMoore said:
How often do people change (or even have different) the viewfinder on their cameras.?
Is that something you guys do quite a bit.?
Thank You

Quite a bit for me. Having the option makes it very convenient.
Great for changing perspective and magnification. These usually have a host of user changeable screens too which offer more options.

Also CDS metering cels were in the viewfinders of the F2 and XK. With new viewfinders, these were upgraded to faster SPD.

Sirius Glass · May 31, 2017

You cannot go wrong with the Nikon or Minolta.

CMoore · May 31, 2017

Les Sarile said:
Quite a bit for me. Having the option makes it very convenient.
Great for changing perspective and magnification. These usually have a host of user changeable screens too which offer more options.

That is what i am wondering...Thanks.
Regards the F2, i believe the Perspective/Magnification are all the same...and the same screens can be used in all of them. Again, a Minolta/Pentax/Canon might be different.?
Like Matt said the Waist (Waste.?) Level finder for an F2 is so small, not sure my 60 year old eyes could focus it, and i think you lose the meter.

I am not arguing the point, I believe you.
I do not (in modern day) recall anybody discarding a camera system, only because it did not have different finders available.
If other finders were made, there were reasons, and i am sure some photographers made good use of them.
Thanks Again

Paul Howell · May 31, 2017

I am just providing the list, he needs to do his own research, when a working PJ I owned and used the F and F2, F3, have not used Canon F1, Minolta XK or Topcon, knew Navy Photographers who used and liked the Super D, other who really wanted the Navy to buy Nikon. I recall that when Topcon dropped out of the market the Navy bought Canon F1 and New F1. Also agree that waist level and critical focus viewfinders were not used often, I had a wait level for my F, when I upgraded to F2 did not replace. I recommend that he cost out the price of body, lens, motor drive, and other accessories system by system.

Les Sarile · May 31, 2017

CMoore said:
Regards the F2, i believe the Perspective/Magnification are all the same...and the same screens can be used in all of them. Again, a Minolta/Pentax/Canon might be different.?
Like Matt said the Waist (Waste.?) Level finder for an F2 is so small, not sure my 60 year old eyes could focus it, and i think you lose the meter.

I am not arguing the point, I believe you.
I do not (in modern day) recall anybody discarding a camera system, only because it did not have different finders available.

No arguments from me just facts.

Magnification in the LX VFs can vary from greater than 100% to 55% which is great for critical focusing or eye-relief. Most LX VFs have built-in diopter.

WL VFs have built-in magnifier for critical focusing at eye-level. These are also useful for overhead shooting as well as bellows or microscope.

Modern day (autofocus) have tiny magnifications as they rely on AF for critical focusing.

People have moved on from manual focus to AF cameras because of viewfinders.

Les Sarile · May 31, 2017

BTW, gathering working system accessories is a treasure hunt!

ac12 · May 31, 2017

I did not remove the prism from my F2 often, but it was invaluable when shooting over my head, and for LOW angle shots at ground level. With the prism off, I could see where I was aiming the camera.

Huss · May 31, 2017

I occasionally swap out the head on my F2 depending on whether I want the meter (AS head) or sleeker non metered head, or the waist level head.
Depends on mood and if I plan on staying out late. If so, then I definitely use the metered head.

dmr · May 31, 2017

Your friend is describing the Nikon F to a tee. They are available easily and reasonably.

I've never owned a Nikon, but I have a great deal of respect for them.

ic-racer · May 31, 2017

I used (and still have the complete system) the Rolleiflex 3000 and 6000 cameras in the 1980s and shunned the Nikons because they were too popular. But, if I had to make a recommendation to a friend, I'd say to go with Nikon. Mostly because they still make 35mm cameras and your 1970s lenses will be compatible with the F6. I have also taken my own advice and stocked up on Nikon film cameras and lenses and F6 is on my want list.

jimjm · May 31, 2017

If you friend is set on a 70's-era system, I'd consider the F2 over the F. The F2 motor drives were a significant improvement from the F. I have the MD-2 with the MB-1 battery pack which takes 10 AA batteries, but it is a beast.

If he decides on an F3, the MD-4 motor drive is much smaller and lighter, using 8 AA batteries. Although this is definitely an 80's camera, and battery-dependent.

Although I've never owned them, I think the Canon F1 also checks off all the boxes. Pentax LX is a 80's-era system, like the F3. Minolta XK might be more of a challenge finding parts and accessories, as they were not a popular as Nikon, Pentax or Canon.

vlasta · May 31, 2017

Huss said:
I occasionally swap out the head on my F2 depending on whether I want the meter (AS head) or sleeker non metered head, or the waist level head.

Offtopic - can be F plain prism used on F2 ?

jimjm · May 31, 2017

vlasta said:
Offtopic - can be F plain prism used on F2 ?

Yep. You just won't have the big Nikon nameplate.

On the F, the nameplate is attached to the body. With the F2, it's attached to the prism.

Trangia · May 31, 2017

MattKing said:
Olympus OM-1 and OM-2
No interchangeable finders, but certainly everything else - especially if you are in to photo-micrography.
If the 1980s are included, all of the single digit bodies are eligible.

Another vote for Olympus. All but the very earliest M-1 and OM-1 came motor drive capable (early ones could be adapted though).
No interchangable "finders", but many changable focusing screens. Yes, I change the screens on my OMs to suit my lens or mood du jour.

Paul Howell · May 31, 2017

When I traded in my F for an F2 I was told the viewfinders were not interchangeable so added the waist level finder, I just took the word of the sales guy and did not check.

At any rate I am just giving the list of camera systems to research, if it goes south will not be on me. Saying that I think of the 3 Fs I have owned and used the F2 is favorite. I currently shoot Minolta A mount, but have a soft spot for the F and F2. Not that the F3 was a bad camera, never let me down, but never attached to it like did the F and F2.

Les Sarile · May 31, 2017

jimjm said:
Although I've never owned them, I think the Canon F1 also checks off all the boxes. Pentax LX is a 80's-era system, like the F3. Minolta XK might be more of a challenge finding parts and accessories, as they were not a popular as Nikon, Pentax or Canon.

For the Minolta XK, you have to get the motor version if you want motorized ability.

Even thought the Pentax LX and Canon New F-1 were released in the 80's, both had hybrid shutter systems that would allow their shutters to continue functioning from sync to top speed (+Bulb) without batteries. Of course no meter. The XK and Nikon F3 were much more battery dependent and had sync and Bulb (T setting for the F3) only when batteries die.

70's Full system 35mm

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70's Full system 35mm

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