7 Bath E-6

BySumbergsStache · May 27, 2017

I see that Freestyle offers a $200 E-6 kit to develop 40 rolls of E-6 film, which is much greater than my typical film usage. I also tried the Arista 3 bath kit but was disappointed by the results. Are there any other options?

One thing is that I have a temperature controlled bath, and I followed the Arista kit's advice of 105F bath temperature... was that 105F to compensate for cooling during a non heated cycle? From what I understand, E-6 is 6:15 min 1st Dev @ 100F

Truzi · May 27, 2017

I'd be interested in some feedback too. I want a multi-bath kit, but the one you mention seems the only thing I can find in the U.S. As long as I can get full usage from the kit, I don't mind the high price.

There are a lot of opinions about longevity and storage, but perhaps some people with experience with this particular kit can give some advice.

I've a few odd rolls of slide film, plus the Ferrania rewards are on the horizon, and I just bought a pack of 4x5 Velvia for a vacation in a couple weeks. I'll be doing this soon myself.

Alan9940 · May 27, 2017

About a year or so ago, I e-mailed a photographer (after watching his YouTube video) with usage questions regarding the 5L Fuji Hunt kit because I was concerned that I wouldn't use all of the chemistry before it was no good. Anyway, long story short...he freezes exposed Velvia until he has enough film stock piled to batch process and burn right through the 5L. He said that he had some Velvia 50 that was 11 months post-exposure and some Kodak Ektar 100 sheets that were 15 months post-exposure, and all turned out fine. I haven't tried this for myself, yet, so YMMV.

1kgcoffee · May 27, 2017

I too would be interested in a six or seven bath e-6 kit. How do you obtain the Fuji hunt kit in Canada?

Rudeofus · May 28, 2017

These seven bath kit use more or less the same kind of chemistry for FD and CD, and these are the bathes most commonly associated with premature failure of kits. Their separate bleach and fixer concentrates should last a lot longer than typical BLIX concentrates of 3-bath E6 kits, and the remaining concentrates (reexposure, prebleach, final rinse) should also not interfere with shelf life. Conclusion: there is a good chance that 7-bath kits can be partially mixed and use for as long as a whole year, with the remaining concentrates sealed with inert gas and firmly closed. Partial mixing would then happen in batches of 250-500ml for processing 3-6 rolls within a week or so.

Yes, PhotoEngineer claims with a passion that BLIX kits won't archivally desilver color film, but at the same time shipment of E6 bleach appears to be a logistic nightmare. Our options are "paying through the nose for 7-bath kits assuming we get those at all", "playing with our luck and cheap 3-bath kits", and "praying that our (there was a url link here which no longer exists) works".

BySumbergsStache · Jun 13, 2017

Does c-41 Bleach work with E-6 film? I have a lot of Kodak Bleach III (10L of it)

Rudeofus · Jun 14, 2017

E6 film is specified for E6 bleach only, not for the much stronger Bleach III for C-41. At the same time, many home brewers seem to use the even stronger Ferricyanide bleach with great success, and so far I haven't heard a single credible report, that an E6 film was damaged by such a strong bleach. I have tried a Bleach III like mix myself and it worked.

My recommendation: use it, but maybe not for most critical work that can not possibly be redone.

Beginer · Jul 25, 2017

Hi Rudeofus,

I am interesting the seven bath for E6. Is that only different bleach vs 6 bath? or many changed the formula at each steps from 6 bath? If possible, could you write the only the different formula in 7 bath? Appreciate.

JW

Rudeofus · Jul 25, 2017

Dear JW,

I assume you meant 7-bath vs. 3-bath. Here are the 7 process steps listed in consecutive order and compared to 3-bath kit components:

process step	function	3 bath step performing this action
first developer	develop exposed silver so it doesn't form dye in CD step	first developer
reexposure	chemically expose left over silver halide such that it can be developed in color developer step	typically included in color developer
color developer	form dye where first developer left silver halide undeveloped	color developer
prebleach	scavenge carry over color developer, introduce bleach accelerator, deactivate unreacted color couplers	omitted, deactivation of unreacted color couplers done by STAB
bleach	convert silver into silver halide	BLIX
fixer	dissolve silver halide	BLIX
STAB	protect emulsion from germs and fungus	STAB (also deactivates unreacted color coupler)

You will notice immediately, that 3-bath kits are actually 4-bath kits, which (mostly for marketing reasons, 3-bath sounds even easier than 4-bath) don't count the STAB as bath.

iandvaag · Jul 25, 2017

Rudeofus said:
PhotoEngineer claims with a passion that BLIX kits won't archivally desilver color film

I can't recall PE ever having said that a BLIX affects archival stability. In fact, in (there was a url link here which no longer exists) he said "There is no connection between archival quality and the use of blix or bleach-fix. The argument is removal of silver from color films which affects grain, sharpness and color repronduction. In E6 films, it can also affect whites."

The lack of availability of quality home processing kits is a frustrating problem. I buy the 3-bath Arista kit from argentix.ca. I store film in the freezer after shooting and develop it all at once since it can decisively be said that blixes do not last long. I haven't yet tried separating the blix into bleach-fix as per Rudi's article, since I don't have a pH meter at home, and I really think that is required to do it properly. Instead, I process all of my film within about 10 hours of mixing the blix, and since the bleaching and fixing are "to completion", I triple the recommended time. I use all solutions one shot. I can not tell any difference between my home processed film and stuff I've had processed by a local lab (Don's Photo). Although, I should say that I do not have a micodensitometer, nor a color densitometer, nor an XRF spectrometer to check for retained silver. I have not compared them in any quantitative way, but visually I cannot tell the difference.

1kgcoffee said:
I too would be interested in a six or seven bath e-6 kit. How do you obtain the Fuji hunt kit in Canada?

I'm not sure, but the only place that looked possible when I was searching was ag-photographic.co. I'm not sure if they will ship to Canada, but it looked like maybe.

Beginer said:
I am interesting the seven bath for E6. Is that only different bleach vs 6 bath?

I could be wrong, but I think 7 vs 6 bath is just a difference in nomenclature, not in process. The Fuji Hunt E6 kit has 7 processing solutions, but only 6 if you don't count the final rinse.
FD; (wash)
Reversal bath
CD
Pre-bleach
Bleach
Fix; (wash)
(Final Rinse)

Just as in the 3-bath kits, the stabilizer is not counted:
FD; (wash)
CD
Blix; (wash)
(stabilizer)

twelvetone12 · Jul 25, 2017

There is an Italian maker, Bellini, that makes 1L 6 bath kits, but I could never manage to get one (I did find a c41 one with separate bleach and fix). Does anyone have experience with it?

Beginer · Jul 25, 2017

Thanks Rudeofus. In the 7-bath steps processing, is there any chemical contents mix change? is it possible get it? Very appreciate !

Rudeofus · Jul 26, 2017

Beginer said:
Thanks Rudeofus. In the 7-bath steps processing, is there any chemical contents mix change? is it possible get it? Very appreciate !

FD is basically the same for both 7-bath and 3-bath. The CD of 3-bath kits also contains the reexposure compound, so it's a bit different. You should be able to use 3-bath kit CD in a 7-bath process, but you can substitute 3-bath CD only with both reexposure bath and CD from 7-bath kit. The rest of the bathes are not really interchangeable, either you go prebleach, bleach, fix and 7-bath STAB, or you go BLIX and 3-bath STAB. You can use 3-bath STAB for 7-bath process, but not the other way around.

If you are not afraid of a bit of self mixing, you can convert 3-bath kit into full bleach&fix kit in a (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

Beginer · Jul 26, 2017

Appreciate ! Very experience and professional.

thuggins · Jul 29, 2017

I'm half way thru my first Tetenal kit and the results are consistently as good as any pro lab. Provia and Ektachrome come out exactly as I expect. Velvia is too dark, but that is also as I expect and why I've never been a fan of Velvia.

The kit runs about 80 bucks, with shipping. They say it will do 30 rolls, but I'm well on my way to getting 50 out of one kit. As for being archival, if the trannies last 20 years they will outlast me.

Beginer · Jan 14, 2018

Hi Rudeofus, do you hear the new Fuji C^R formulor? If it is, what is the contents? Is possible shows here? Thanks

Beginer · Jan 14, 2018

The C^R should be C6R

Rudeofus · Jan 15, 2018

Fuji does not publish formulas of their kits. The did publish an E6 formula in one of their patents, and PhotoEngineer more or less confirmed that these formulas are correct.

fdonadio · Jan 15, 2018

Rudeofus said:
Fuji does not publish formulas of their kits. The did publish an E6 formula in one of their patents, and PhotoEngineer more or less confirmed that these formulas are correct.

I advise anyone trying to mix those from scratch to be very, very patient and determined to find all those raw chemicals. In fact, I believe one can’t find all of them.

Rudeofus · Jan 15, 2018

fdonadio said:
I advise anyone trying to mix those from scratch to be very, very patient and determined to find all those raw chemicals. In fact, I believe one can’t find all of them.

Agree with your comment. Stefan Lange has devised E6 formulas for FD and CD which can be mixed from easy to get photo chemistry (read: chems listed by Suvatlar, Artcraft and Formulary)

afriman · Jan 15, 2018

Rudeofus said:
Agree with your comment. Stefan Lange has devised E6 formulas for FD and CD which can be mixed from easy to get photo chemistry (read: chems listed by Suvatlar, Artcraft and Formulary)

I'd really like to hear from users who have tried these formulas, Comparisons with results from the official chemistry as well as third-party kits, would be great.

Anon Ymous · Jan 15, 2018

afriman said:
I'd really like to hear from users who have tried these formulas, Comparisons with results from the official chemistry as well as third-party kits, would be great.

I have. Actually, these are the only E6 chemicals I've ever used, so I can't compare them to any kits or official chemicals. Anyway, I first mixed the formulae from post #1, the ones under "RECEIPT I , base reciept". The film I developed included gray card shots at -2, -1, 0, +1 and +2 stops. The result was quite bluish, but not terrible. I tried adjusting the potassium iodide content and even doubled it. It didn't seem to make any difference, which got me puzzled. Then I thought about trying the formulae of post #14, which should be revised/improved. I didn't have any ethylenediamine, so I actually mixed just the FD from post #14, but mixed another batch of the CD from post #1. By the way, I also substituted Potassium Carbonate with the equimolar amount of Sodium Carbonate. Anyway, the pH of the FD was correct from the beginning, but the CD was way off. I wasn't entirely sure what the problem was, my cheap pH meter could be problematic, so I used it as is. The result was that the grayscale was better with this combination, but this time it had a green cast. This suggests that the pH of the CD was too low, something that my pH meter hinted at. This probably isn't related to the formula itself, but rather the impure nature of some of my chemicals (CD specific, could be CD3, or citrazinic acid?). I made a correction with some NaOH solution and made another attempt. This time, I had an almost perfect grayscale and the slides looked fine.

So, the bottom-line is that these are viable formulae, but mixing a correct solution can be tricky.

Rudeofus · Jan 15, 2018

I have also used Stefan's formulas, but mixed CD with DTOD instead of Ethylenediamine, using the same 1 g/l as Fuji's recipes. Since my chem source appears to be mostly the same as Stefan's, my mixtures matched well in terms of both pH and results, to the point where an off pH would rather suggest a pH meter mis-calibration on my side than a flaw with the formula.

Beginer · Jan 15, 2018

Rudeofus said:
Fuji does not publish formulas of their kits. The did publish an E6 formula in one of their patents, and PhotoEngineer more or less confirmed that these formulas are correct.

Thanks lot and best to me is know the current situations!

7 Bath E-6

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