6x9 film wont fit in 120 spool

A customer brought me some film recently that looked a lot like 120 film--it was about 60 years old and I processed one roll with moderate success using my normal SS 120 reels. I say moderate success because the film was so curly and narrow that I barely got it on the reel! She was so happy with it, that she brought me three more rolls of the stuff, oy. I just spent 45 minutes in the dark trying to get one roll reeled up on three different types of reels. I feel like I have tried everything, and every time, I end up getting 3 or more rings without film on them, and it's just a simple problem of the film itself being a hair narrower than regular 120 film. The film is called Turapan 6x9, and it's a 40ASA film.

Here's what I've tried so far:

Stainless Steel reels (of various clamping styles); reeling it forwards, backwards and upside down (in hopes to combat the curling)

JOBO Reels

Patterson Plastic reels

all of them are just slightly too big. --Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Adjust one of the plastic reels slightly off the slots for 120 so it fits the odd old film and super glue the reel in place.

It's probably not 120 film. There were many different film sizes in the early 20th century. You'd have to measure the width of the film and do a google search to find out for sure what you have. The 6x9 size of the negative being produced really doesn't have anything to do with the film size.

Wayne- I really considered doing this, but I think that the curliness of the film will make it too difficult to get on to the reel with out having the back and forth motion that would be there if I hadn't glued it together.

If your customer can stand the delay, you could try one of the old Kodak tanks with the plastic apron. There are lots of reasons to not like them, but they don't depend on a precise film width, and would be just the thing for this project.
I've not had a reason to look, but they are probably around on ebay.

You don't need reels. Just submerge the film or see-saw it through a bucket of developer (in the dark). Same difference.

Are you talking about that plastic lasagna thing?

Are you talking about that plastic lasagna thing?

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Yes

How about "Plastic Film Apron Reel Replacement for Arista 120 size EZ Tank" from Freestyle?

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/50138...ement-for-Arista-120-size-EZ-Tank?cat_id=1603

That looks like it's the answer--the only aprons I have now are for 828/135, so I'll have to call up freestyle on Monday. Thanks!

It's probable that the film has just shrunk a tiny bit. Not at all uncommon. But difficult if you are trying to use stainless steel reels. The film apron type tank is the solution.

There's a Wiki article:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_format

which shows a size 105 film, which gives 6 x 9 negs, and was discontinued in 1949. This would fit your "60-year-old" film, but I can't trace any other details on size or number of exposures.

Is it possible that your film is 120, but out-of-tolerence (though Tura was a reputable maker). Or can film actually shrink after 60 years ?

This guy regularly finds, processes, and posts older "found film": http://westfordcomp.com/updated/found.htm

He might have some good advise on older film in odd sizes.

Measure carefully and make a new groove around a plastic reel with a hacksaw. This method worked very well for me for processing 2x3 sheets on a reel.

David William White said:

You don't need reels. Just submerge the film or see-saw it through a bucket of developer (in the dark). Same difference.

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Yup. That is basically what I would do. I have a developing tray that I made just for this purpose. Sometimes I find weird old film in weird old cameras, and it won't fit any reel. I made mine out of black Plexiglas. It is a long, narrow developing tray, and I tape either end of the film down to the bottom of the tray before processing. The bottom of the tray (under the film strip) is filled with squares cut from strawberry baskets, as a cheap and easy way to allow the solutions to contact both surfaces of the film. (You can buy plastic screen from a hardware store instead of using strawberry baskets, but I happened to have them around when I was making the tray.) However, if you don't have the saws and glue for making a flat-bottomed Plexiglas tray, you can rig something together with a wide piece of split PVC pipe and some end caps from a hardware store. The only drawbacks over my method is that you need more chemical volume with the pipe, and you need a way to fix it level, so it does not try to roll away on you.

You can also spiral the film emulsion side out around a cylindrical "core" of some sort, and dunk/rotate the core in a tall, skinny tank of some sort. This whole setup can also be done with PVC pipe; one larger pipe for the tank, and a smaller one for the "core", around which you spiral the film. Note: Fill the core with something like water or rocks/sand/clay/etc. and cap both ends, and also build a lift handle on one end. Don't leave the core open on the ends, as it would waste a bunch of chemistry.

I don't have the problem but you never know when something like this crops up. So, my question is, if the film is real real curly, would the sea-saw method work?

Even if too curly for see-sawing, just submerge and wind from hand to hand back and forth a few times until 6 or 7 minutes (or whatever) have elapsed. Home motion picture film (long rolls) is done in a tank with two submerged reels, and the film is wound back and forth from reel to reel until the time has elapsed.

Usually, though, once the film has been wet, the curl tames and see-sawing works fine. But as long as the emulsion side gets moved through fresh developer, it will develop evenly.

If you get people coming to you with old film then it might be worthwhile bidding for old Paterson system II tanks. These take various out of date film sizes such as 116 as well as 127 and normal 120. On the U.K. e-bay site these usually go quite cheaply because so few people need to develop anything other than 120 film nowadays.

pentaxuser

Oh heck. Just use the film apron. Sounds like it's what will work best. And luckily, you already know how it works.

2F/2F- I was actually going to use that PVC pipe method for some 16mm I was processing a couple of months ago, but never realy followed though.

This time though, I'm definitely going to be using the film apron--it seems like the least amount of investment (in terms of time AND money!). Thanks to everyone for suggestions!

I hand slice 70mm to reload onto 120 spools/620 spools and the width is not always precise enough for stainless reels.

I use large rubber bands (about 1/4" wide unstreched) that the evening paper comes held together in to adapt the paterson roll to the narrower film.

Put the bands a few loops deep on the narrow portion of the shaft, until they fit snugly and then don't try to get the larger half to twist back into the usual 120 spot notch; just roll some of the rubber band over the wider diameter shaft, and all will hold in place. The ratchets are not excatly across from each other, so things are a bit trickier to load, but the method works.

If I do this more often I was thinking of cutting the shaft tabs off of one spool's larger diameter, and then space it the right distance apart, and make al fast by winding the joint with self amalgamating ruber tape. It works great for this kind of applcation, where you want to start with something flexible, and end up with a mass that is a solid.