6x9 120... the slow way

(read with humor in mind - some of the comments seem awfully serious - I was just trying to have a laugh at how slow some processes can be when you're first starting out with a new system)

Hey,

So this isn't exactly for the MF forum, but since this is where I hang out and I mostly shoot 120 you can hear me out.

Since shooting 120 I wanted to a 6x9 camera. Haven't come across the right one or haven't had the money, etc. This past weekend however I purchased a Speed Graphic Pacemaker for a great deal, and low and behold it came with a 6x9 120 back. Thoughts that went through my head: "Oh, I've shot 4x5 before, but (and this is where my mind probably drifted off into thinking about girls or sports cars)."

Eight shots per roll, so this should be fast! Um....

So here's how this works in a nutshell.

- Setup Tripod
- Pop-open camera, extend lens/bellows, also ground glass dark blinds
- Look in outlined area of ground glass upside down and backwards at your subject. Yeah, it's hard to see because of that side light, so best to block some of that light with a spare hand or assistant.
- Ah, focus! Wait, better get the loop out because maybe I'm not really in focus.
- Ah, not in focus. Unlock rail, adjust a bit, bam, focused.
- Set exposure and aperture on the lens, close lens to keep light from coming through

Oh, you DID already load the 120 film holder, right?

- Verify dark slide is in place.
- Open back of film holder. Load film rather normally. Use penny or fingernail to position counter to S (start).
- Rotate knob until you reach 1.

- OK, now slide, er, push 120 film holder into the back of the Speed Graphic. Nothing has moved right?
- Remove dark slide from 120 film holder
- Take the darn photo (no swearing!)
- Put dark slide back into the 120 back
- Remove 120 back
- Click the little button on the 120 back that's unmarked but means, "I've taken a shot"
- Rotate dial until it's on "2"

You didn't bring your wife with you? YOU IDIOT. I did. This wasn't the normal, "Hun, I'm taking a camera while we walk, k?" kind of question. She had no idea each shot would require her to hold things and that it would take me close to 15 minutes (or was it longer) to get two shots of really nothing as I was just testing the system out. Be smarter than me. That's not difficult.

Yay, you've taken 1 6x9 shot. Want to take another? Well you have to remove the 120 back to focus, so other than reloading the film back, you have to start all over again.

Anyways, while interesting, I think I'll stick to the Pentax 67 and Mamiya for most of the 120 work. I guess I'll have to use the Speed Graphic for actual 4x5 and instant work.

There's your cautionary tale for a Friday afternoon.

Cheers,

Randy

So what's the problem? If you what to have fun faster, get a viewfinder mask and use the rangefinder.

Exactly why I never bothered to buy a 120 back for my view camera. Keep your eye peeled for a Kodak Tourist with a flashmatic shutter and speeds to 1/300 or 1/500. You have to respool onto a 620 spool or modify the camera for 120, but capable of incredible results for real cheap money.

BrianShaw said:

So what's the problem? If you what to have fun faster, get a viewfinder mask and use the rangefinder.

Click to expand...

Have you tried using the range finder on a Speed Graphic Pacemaker? It's almost laughable. Mine is also not at all calibrated to the lens.

Just a hopefully fun tale!

Rick A said:

Exactly why I never bothered to buy a 120 back for my view camera. Keep your eye peeled for a Kodak Tourist with a flashmatic shutter and speeds to 1/300 or 1/500. You have to respool onto a 620 spool or modify the camera for 120, but capable of incredible results for real cheap money.

Click to expand...

Cool! I'll keep an eye out. Thanks!

pixelrandy said:

Have you tried using the range finder on a Speed Graphic Pacemaker? It's almost laughable. Mine is also not at all calibrated to the lens.

Just a hopefully fun tale!

Click to expand...

Oh... well that would have to be remedied first. I've used roll film back on Anniversary Graphic (converted to a Graflok back) and a SuperGraphic. All of the Graphic rangefinders are a bit "squinty" but its a real thrill so well worth trying.

Ah man, you mean I have to read the manual too! OK, I'll calibrate it.

I think 6x9 is a great size to work with. "Almost" like 4x5 but much much easier. No tripod! Easy focus! No film holders! Easy developing!

pixelrandy said:

Have you tried using the range finder on a Speed Graphic Pacemaker? It's almost laughable. Mine is also not at all calibrated to the lens.!

Click to expand...

As it happens, I focus my Graphics on their ground glasses. But when their rangefinders are adjusted to the lens in use they work very well. And when the RF is calibrated to the lens in use there's no reason to detach the roll holder between shots. The dark slide has to be pushed in between shots only when the Speed Graphic's focal plane shutter, which isn't self-capping, is used.

You come across as, um, not very motivated to learn how to use your tools. As is said in many contexts, RTFM.

Not knowing about insertion type roll holders what slip in like sheet film holders is confirmation that you're under-prepared. I use a 6x12 Sinar Panorama with my 4x5 and the much despised Adapt-A-Roll 620 holders with my 2x3 view camera and 2x3 Graphics. Having used insertion types for years I find them easier to use than clip-on types; one doesn't have to find a safe place to put the focusing panel. I have a Linhof 6x9 Super Rollex that clips on to a 4x5 Graflok back coming. The price was right and I'm not completely wedded to insertion type roll holders.

Your description of setting up to shoot is inaccurate. You left most of the steps out. Your description of how to use a roll holder that isn't fully integrated with the camera is reasonable. That's how it is. Live with it or do something else.

Hatchetman, I shoot 6x9 with focal lengths ranging from 35 mm to 900 mm. Handheld doesn't cut it.

Gee whiz... there isn't much difference between inserting a DDS and swapping the focus screen for a RFH. In fact, the latter is probably less likely to move anything.

Rick A said:

Exactly why I never bothered to buy a 120 back for my view camera. Keep your eye peeled for a Kodak Tourist with a flashmatic shutter and speeds to 1/300 or 1/500. You have to respool onto a 620 spool or modify the camera for 120, but capable of incredible results for real cheap money.

Click to expand...

Yes, of course, you're absolutely right if you want to use just the one lens. One of the attractions of view cameras and even press cameras like Graphics is interchangeable lenses.

Dan Fromm said:

As it happens, I focus my Graphics on their ground glasses. But when their rangefinders are adjusted to the lens in use they work very well. You come across as, um, not very motivated to learn how to use your tools.

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Quite the contrary! However I only picked this up last weekend and haven't had a chance to look into it further. I was also teasing about reading the manual. I've gone through much of it already. Sorry if my sarcasm didn't come through.

I'm quite the techie nerd, restore old cars, build my own computers, engines, fly airplanes, yatta yatta. But I appreciate you putting me in that box. ;-)

Dan Fromm said:

The dark slide has to be pushed in between shots only when the Speed Graphic's focal plane shutter, which isn't self-capping, is used.

Click to expand...

I didn't know this (having not operated a Speed Graphic), a non-self-capping focal-plane shutter. Didn't know those existed. What fun that must be. I always wondered what fun it must be to set the slit width and tension to get the shutter speed you want.

Bill Burk said:

I didn't know this (having not operated a Speed Graphic), a non-self-capping focal-plane shutter. Didn't know those existed. What fun that must be. I always wondered what fun it must be to set the slit width and tension to get the shutter speed you want.

Click to expand...

The factory attached a table to every camera with a FP shutter for simplicity.

Here's the lens I'm using. It's not self-capping, so I have to put the dark slide in between shots... which I have to do 99% of the time as I rarely sit there and shoot the same thing at the same distance. Since I'm using the ground glass to focus, I have to put the dark slide back in to remove the 120 back so I can focus again. I'm walking/hiking around or working with models in location environments.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/pixelrandy/15287039899/ (photo of lens and field camera)

I shot a roll with a 2x3 B&J once. Sold the camera after that roll.

I'd rather shoot 2x3 with a 4x5 speed than have a 2x3 camera around...but maybe I'm weird.

Doesn't your Pacemaker have a rangefinder? Does it have a Graflok back? Was the 120 film holder made by Graflec Corp.? If the answer to all of these questions is "yes", things should go smoother unless you forget to match the rangefinder with your lens.....Regards!

pixelrandy said:

Have you tried using the range finder on a Speed Graphic Pacemaker? It's almost laughable. Mine is also not at all calibrated to the lens.

Just a hopefully fun tale!

Click to expand...

when properly set up a speed graphic is very quick to use. I have 2 by 3 and 4 by 5 and with the rangefinders they are quick shooters, relatively speaking.

pixelrandy said:

Here's the lens I'm using. It's not self-capping, so I have to put the dark slide in between shots... which I have to do 99% of the time as I rarely sit there and shoot the same thing at the same distance. Since I'm using the ground glass to focus, I have to put the dark slide back in to remove the 120 back so I can focus again. I'm walking/hiking around or working with models in location environments.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/pixelrandy/15287039899/ (photo of lens and field camera)

Click to expand...

Sigh. The lens is a 150/5.6 Convertible Symmar in a Synchro Compur P #1. That shutter is open only when fired (to take an exposure) on T or B and when held open by the blade arrestor to allow focusing on the ground glass. Self-capping as self-capping can be.

The camera is a 4x5er, has a top rangefinder, not a Kalart. The top RF is cammed, the OP will need the right cams for his lenses. OP, go to www.graflex.org and read the FAQs. Also go to www.southbristolviews.com, look in the Graflex manuals section for the top RF camera manual and the cam scans. Be aware that lenses' actual focal lengths rarely match nominal (engraved on the trim ring or barrel) and that the Graphic top RF needs cams cut to match the lenses to be used. Generic won't do.

The procedure for taking an exposure with a Speed Graphic (focusing on the GG) using the focal plane shutter is: open the focal plane shutter; open the front shutter; focus and compose; stop the lens down; select the FPS slit width; wind the FPS to the desired spring tension; insert or attach film holder; withdraw dark slide; shoot. When using the front shutter: open the FPS; open the front shutter; focus and compose; close the front shutter; select aperture; cock the front shutter; insert or attach film holder; withdraw dark slide; shoot.

O-n-F, Pacemaker Graphics -- the OP has one -- don't have those nice tables of shutter speed by slit width and tension. They have simplified six speed focal plane shutters. Go to graflex.org and read the FAQs.

You left out the part where you process 80 exposures in the time it takes to process 10 4x5 exposures.

Here is my sheet for using the Speed's rear shutter with the RH_10 rollfilm back.
I have a similar sheet with the times and order for processing the C41 film.
I find the "cheat-sheets" can help avoid screw-ups

1 Sell the roll film back
2 Buy 6x9 folder with the money
3 Buy some 120 film with the change
4 Make loads of photographs that please you

Simple really...

RR

Ya gotta get into the zen of it. think of it as a tea ceremony ; )
I completely sympathize. For me, remembering to switch from the bulb setting before you pull that dark slide on the holder has been a hard learned skill.

Get a fuji 6x9 rf for more speed, unless you really need the movements (which you don't really have with that speedy anyway)