6x6 for studio .. but which one?

Matus Kalisky · Dec 11, 2009

It just somehow happened - over last year I did two studio sessions (portraits and such) and now I have 2 studio flashes.

During the last session (that will continue next year) some of the results are supposed to be printed up to size 100x100 cm and from the beginning it was rather obvious that my elderly 6 Mpix DSLR will not cut it - so I used the only MF camera I had - the Rolleiflex T (I have 4x5 too but that is out of question). As I use this camera for some time already I am rather confident with it. However the limitation of the fixed lens did introduce some problems - especially when closer shots needed to be taken.

Now - I do not want to invest $1000+ into new digital camera as it would not pay back so I am looking into 6x6 SLR cameras with 2 - 3 lenses with focal length about 55 - 65, 100, 150 - 200 (something equivalent 35-40, 70 - 80, 135) or thereabouts. A leaf shutter for at least some of the lenses would be nice as the sync speeds of 6x6 SLRs are usually rather low - I prefer to use 1/125 - 1/250.

What concerns other features needed - obviously X-sync, waist level finder and possibly also prism finder (though metering is not necessary), changing backs.

I know there are several models, but I would like something hand holdable (no, forget the 6x7 Mamiya SLRs - I might consider Bronica GS1 if there would be good reasons). I am actually wondering whether one of the Mamiya TYLR C (C33, C330) could work ... ?

Also - I would like to keep the price reasonable (whatever that means), as I am far from some reasonable outcome.

thisismyname09 · Dec 11, 2009

The Bronica SQ sounds like it would fit your needs well. I've heard it (as well as the older 6x6 bronicas) referred to as the "japanese hasselblad." All the lenses have leaf shutters, so they'll flash sync at all speeds. lenses and such aren't as plentiful as the mamiya cameras or a hasselblad, iirc, but they're not nearly as rare as GS1 stuff. It should be relatively easy to find a body, a few backs, and the specified lenses.

Dave Pritchard · Dec 11, 2009

Koni-Omega Rapid

The Omega Rapid cameras are 6x7, not 6x6, but they are available for reasonable prices and have a superb selection of great Hexanon lenses available. They work hand-held. Many were used for wedding photography. It is a leaf-shutter camera, with interchangeable lenses.

MattKing · Dec 11, 2009

I have a Mamiya C330 that I've used for studio work, and it certainly works well. A 65mm, 105mm, 180mm lens kit would be relatively reasonable in cost. My kit is 55mm, 65mm, 80mm and 135mm and I find it to be very functional.

When you refer to closer shots, how close do you mean? If you are talking about near-macro, you will also need a close focus accessory called a paramender.

Matt

timtheskeetshooter · Dec 11, 2009

The Mamiya RB67 would be good fit.

timk · Dec 11, 2009

does it have to be 6x6? Mamiya RB67 springs to mind, they meet all of your requirements and the weight won't be an issue if you're using it in the studio. Also cheap!

there aren't many 6x6 or 6x7 SLR's with focal plane shutters, most will have leaf shutters and be able to sync at any speed (RB67, RZ67, Hasselblad 500, bronica SQ / GS, pentax 67 all have lenses with leaf shutters as far as I'm aware)

also, is there any particular reason you need such a high sync speed?

Sirius Glass · Dec 11, 2009

Get the real thing with a path to the darkside if necessary => Hasselblad 503 CX CXi or CW with the 50mm, 100mm and 150mm [or 180mm] lenses. Years from now you will still be able to get parts, service and be able to expand your stable of lenses or replace any component should it become necessary.

Steve

Edwardv · Dec 11, 2009

I would consider the Bronica SQAi, with the 45 degree prism, 110mm lens as my standard lens, 180mm for head and shoulders, and 65mm for groups. Visit Keh they have very reasonable.

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asp.artist · Dec 11, 2009

I'm doing well (over 75 portraits in a series) using a Bronica SQA, WLF, 50, 80, 135. I have prism finders, but don't use them. The workhorse lens has been the 80. The 135 is because my studio is not very wide and I wanted to backup if need be, without changing lenses. I started out with a Yashica D, and the Bronica gave me a chance to use different lenses and backs. In the end the 2 cameras compliment each other. And both can be easily handheld.

Anne

kevcross · Dec 11, 2009

Sounds to me like you're describing a Hasselblad V system.

Very reasonable used prices. Sync speeds up to 1/500 on every lens. WLF, prism finders and interchangeable backs. Accessories available to do just about anything but focus for you.

Kevin

Ektagraphic · Dec 11, 2009

Mamiya RB67.

benjiboy · Dec 12, 2009

The O.P wrote specifically he doesn't want a Mamiya 6x7 SLR, why are people suggesting an RB 67 ?

Q.G. · Dec 12, 2009

One of the Hasselblad EL-models. Preferably a 553 ELX or converted (to AA batteries) 500 ELX.

Matus Kalisky · Dec 12, 2009

I am stunned - just a few hours and so many answers and advices. Thank you.

- The Bronica - I will have a look - seems to be reasonably priced. Which lenses would you propose? From the user point of view - what are the limitations of the system?

- Koni Omega you say - now if I am not mistaken that is a rangefinder camera, or? Would it really be able to fulfill the requirements I have?

- by close shots I mean tight head shots (just head fits the frame). In this case I am just wondering whether I will get so close with camera like C330. How strong would be the parallax problem at such a distance? Which lens would allow it?

- I see that RB67 is a favorite camera of many, but I want to be shooting handhold so I would try to avoid unnecessary weight. Here and then I may use the camera also outside ...

- Hasselblad 503, V, ELX ... - now that are more types than I was aware of! I have to admit I am not truly aware of the differences. While I still think it will cost more than necessary - still - would you be so kind to say a few words about the differences among the? Please do not hesitate to put in a link to an information source if you know one. I would gladly have a look.

- one more point - I am located in Germany so the keh is not really the option, unfortunately.

- just for me to get an idea, could you mention (if possible) an approximate weight of a one lens read-to-shoot setup (with WLF or prism F) of the system you have or propose? It would help me to compare to my Rolleiflex T (cca 1 kg).

Q.G. · Dec 12, 2009

slnce-z-gsi said:
- Hasselblad 503, V, ELX ... - now that are more types than I was aware of! I have to admit I am not truly aware of the differences. While I still think it will cost more than necessary - still - would you be so kind to say a few words about the differences among the? Please do not hesitate to put in a link to an information source if you know one. I would gladly have a look.

To start: have a look at this page.

slnce-z-gsi said:
- just for me to get an idea, could you mention (if possible) an approximate weight of a one lens read-to-shoot setup (with WLF or prism F) of the system you have or propose? It would help me to compare to my Rolleiflex T (cca 1 kg).

A Hasselblad non-motorized 500-series camera, with 80 mm lens, magazine and wlf: 1.5 kg.
A motorized 500-series camera, with the same: 2.2 kg.

Ian Grant · Dec 12, 2009

TLR's are great in the studio nice and easy to use unless your're doing very close up work, I used a Mamiya C33 to shoot a jewellery catalogue back in the 70's it's possible but less practical than a 6x6 SLR.

Having had and used two Mamiya's a C33 and a C3 side by side under a variety of conditions with a fair amount of studio work I can highly recommend them, the lenses are excellent with the advantage of flash synch at all speeds. I only stopped using mine because they were stolen, I replaced them with Mamiya 645's.

Ian

bdial · Dec 12, 2009

As much as I like my Hasselblads, I'd have to agree that a C330 would be a great choice. One big advantage is that you can work close without adding extension tubes or close up lenses because of the bellows focus. They are heavy for TLR's but no other TLR's share its features.
The biggest downside is that for working very close you need to deal with parallax adjustments, but it's not a big problem, even without the "paramender" accessory.

fschifano · Dec 12, 2009

I couldn't agree more with Ian and bdial. I have a Hasselblad 503cx and two Mamiya C220's (more similar than dissimilar to the C330). The C330's even have a parallax correction indicator in the viewfinder that will show what will get chopped off as you focus closer that the C220 lacks. Bang for the buck? Look no further than the Mamiya TLR's. I've several lenses (65, 80, 105,135, and 180) for these cameras and they're all good. Some nitpickers will argue this, but it's all bull. Concerning weight and size, the Mamiya TLR's are bigger and heavier than most other 6x6 TLR's and might be on par with a Hasselblad with a prism and an 80mm lens. I find the extra weight and size advantageous. It's not too big and heavy to be onerous, while having enough mass and size to dampen out some of the camera shake when it's used hand held. I can easily get acceptable frames at 1/15 second with the 65mm and 80mm lenses. Try doing that with a 35mm SLR. Not so easy.

Mark Fisher · Dec 12, 2009

I've owned both the Mamiya TLRs and now have a hasselblad. If you are doing head-filling close ups, an SLR is the way to go. The hasselblad (or Bronica SQ-Ai) will be much easier to shoot handheld also (at least that is my experience). The problem with the Hassy/Bronica is that you'll need to use tubes to do close focussing. The Mamiya TLR can do that without tubes, but the parallax is a problem (at least for composition). This is the reason that people are recommending the RB67....bellows focussing plus it is an SLR. It is big and heavy, but I've heard it is reasonably handholdable especially iwth a side grip. I'd see if I could hold one before discounting it.

johnnywalker · Dec 12, 2009

I'm certainly no expert on medium format, having just bought my first, an RB67, recently. It's a fairly large camera and no one would call it light, but I have no problem carrying it or shooting it handheld. It's a great camera and I wouldn't dismiss it too quickly.

gandolfi · Dec 12, 2009

Rolleiflex SL 66 any day....

fotch · Dec 12, 2009

Hello Matus, I have owned lots of medium format cameras, (SL66, Rollies, Yashica, Mamaya) and for studio portraits and stills, I like the C330 best. Leaf shutter, no blackout, waste level, fast, choice of lens, rugged, and if its important, affordable. JMHO

Slixtiesix · Dec 13, 2009

Naaa the SL66 is great but flash sync is only 1/30 and leaf shutter lenses are rare.

sidearm613 · Dec 13, 2009

I think a Hasselblad (500C/M or newer, 500C is just too old) is the best choice here, no parallax error like the TLRs, relatively light, but most importantly the ownership experience will be much easier. Parts are everywhere, which is something that is no longer true for any of the Bronicas, the Lens selection is very large and very good, and it is lighter than the Rolleiflex SLRs, at least lighter than the 6008. And, I hate to say this, but it is one of the most future proof MF cameras you can buy, as Hasselblad seems to be doing financially OK, and they show no signs of discontinuing the V series or any of its accessories. And, if you happen to work both film and the format for which we shan't speak its name, most of the 'Blads will be able to take a d****** back, if you happen to need one or can afford one in the future. In this respect, they are much more compatible than the Bronicas and Rolleis, to say nothing of the humongoid Mamiyas.

Note to those with logic - Anything I say regarding flash work and digital migration should be disqualified as I primarily use a Pentax 67, which has an abysmal flash sync and NO possibility of mounting anything digital.

rwboyer · Dec 13, 2009

sidearm613 said:
I think a Hasselblad (500C/M or newer, 500C is just too old) is the best choice here, no parallax error like the TLRs, relatively light, but most importantly the ownership experience will be much easier. Parts are everywhere, which is something that is no longer true for any of the Bronicas, the Lens selection is very large and very good, and it is lighter than the Rolleiflex SLRs, at least lighter than the 6008. And, I hate to say this, but it is one of the most future proof MF cameras you can buy, as Hasselblad seems to be doing financially OK, and they show no signs of discontinuing the V series or any of its accessories. And, if you happen to work both film and the format for which we shan't speak its name, most of the 'Blads will be able to take a d****** back, if you happen to need one or can afford one in the future. In this respect, they are much more compatible than the Bronicas and Rolleis, to say nothing of the humongoid Mamiyas.

Note to those with logic - Anything I say regarding flash work and digital migration should be disqualified as I primarily use a Pentax 67, which has an abysmal flash sync and NO possibility of mounting anything digital.

I would have to go with the Hasselblad 500 series as well. I know it sounds like a boiler plate answer but...

I have shot with various medium format camera systems for my personal and commercial work since the late 70's I started with a 500 and an 80 - and kept it but was tempted by the pricing for some of the other systems. So I used various other systems as well - they will all work but I eventually ended up with an all Hasselblad system by choice and am still shooting it today. I have never ever had a single breakdown with any Hasselblad gear - ever. The results are outstanding, even amongst it's peers (let's face it most MF systems are good). Every thing I ever bought works like it was new and the used prices for relatively modern Hasselblad gear is almost shameful since so much of it was dumped by commercial shooters. You can get 503/501 cameras that were the latest greatest thing produced with CFi lenses that look like they just came out of the box for fire sale prices. The older stuff that is just as good is half as much.

Face it if you are still shooting film now you always will be - so at this point a film camera is in the category of lights/stands/tripods - you will have it forever so buy well now and never re-buy it again.

Bottom line - Hasselblad/Zeiss is cheap, still more expensive than the Japanese stuff but cheap. If this is something you plan on doing for a while buy it. If you want cheap buy a Japanese system only if the price is so low that it is insane - like less than $500 for the whole system - all the lenses you want, a couple of film backs, body, finders, everything (I have seen this) and consider it throw away - other wise spend the $500 on a starter Hasselblad outfit with one lens, one back, and waist level that is pristine and keep an eye out for great buys for the rest of the stuff.

Since you are wed to the 6x6 and want an SLR Hasselblad is the way to go. Other 6x6 systems are crappy by comparison or esoteric and hard to build onto (Rollei). If you were open to 6x7 or 6x4.5 that is a slightly different story.

RB

6x6 for studio .. but which one?

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