6x6 for RB67?

Kim Catton · Nov 17, 2010

Hi all

I am the happy owner of an RB67 and would like to shoot 6x6 on it. I know I can just crop when printing but the extra frames and the natural vignetting would be nice to include. I have heard that some backs WAS produced at some point? Also Ive heard talks about a RH12 Filmback (graflex I think) that should be able to fit the RB system?

All the best,

Kim

Pumalite · Nov 17, 2010

The Mamiya RB6X7 does not need fixing. Better get yourself a Hasselblad

michaelbsc · Nov 17, 2010

Why would one get vignettes? Remember the lenses must cover 7x7 to cover 6x7.

If an RH8 will fit you might get optical vignettes, but I expect you'll get mechanical vignettes from the body?

keithwms · Nov 17, 2010

This topic comes up every now and then, shooting square on an rb or rz. A good way to do it is with polaroid (I use type 55) on a quadra back, that's what I do. You get ~7x7 images. There are some square backs that show up on ebay every great now and then, but they are exceedingly rare. If you badly want it then you might need to make yourself a mask to go on your film holder. Or just crop.

fschifano · Nov 18, 2010

Yeah, I'm in agreement with the other posters on this topic. The RB is a great camera just as it is, and I wouldn't start messing with it. If I really wanted 6x6, I'd get a mask for the viewfinder that crops down the viewsreen to a square and crop off the rest under the enlarger. Hand the extra two frames you get with a true 6x6 camera. You'll need to run many many rolls of film before you recoup the cost of a 6x6 back. And besides, with a 6x6 back, you loose the option of making a rectangular negative and its extra real estate.

Neil Grant · Nov 18, 2010

The 6x7 option, and later cropping to 6x6, gives a small but useful amount of indirect movements with benefits in shape control.

Jerevan · Nov 18, 2010

AFAIK, neither the RH12 nor the 6x6 backs are very common. But as I prefer to compose as much as is possible in the viewfinder (of whatever camera I am using) I see your point about getting a dedicated back.

CGW · Nov 18, 2010

Kim Catton said:
Hi all

I am the happy owner of an RB67 and would like to shoot 6x6 on it. I know I can just crop when printing but the extra frames and the natural vignetting would be nice to include. I have heard that some backs WAS produced at some point? Also Ive heard talks about a RH12 Filmback (graflex I think) that should be able to fit the RB system?

All the best,

Kim

Honestly, I'd simply let the RB do what it does so well--produce 6x7 negs/slides. The 6x6 options for it are practically impossible to source and just might not work satisfactorily. There are tons of 6x6 camera options available from dirt cheap to Hasselblad. My take is: want 6x6? Shoot a 6x6 camera.

epatsellis · Nov 18, 2010

fschifano said:
... The RB is a great camera just as it is, and I wouldn't start messing with it.

Oh now, c'mon. Modding is a great way to utilize those $10 as-is KEH treasures. It's worked well for me so far.

TimmyMac · Nov 18, 2010

IMO the only reason to deal with the size and weight of the RB/RZ is because of the format. Otherwise I'd get a blad or bronica SQ or something.

RobertV · Nov 18, 2010

Or get a Cosina Voigtländer Bessa III 667 which you can set to 6x7 or 6x6.

fschifano · Nov 18, 2010

TimmyMac said:
IMO the only reason to deal with the size and weight of the RB/RZ is because of the format. Otherwise I'd get a blad or bronica SQ or something.

Well there you go. The RB is a monster, and that's no exaggeration. Why carry around that much when you can accomplish the same thing with a much smaller and lighter package?

NJS · Nov 20, 2010

as for vignetting, you could use improper lens hood, let's say you stick the one for for 90 on 65mm lens... as for other thing, I'd never reach for 67 camera if I needed square images.

Kim Catton · Nov 21, 2010

Allright - mixed opinions here.

The reason to why I was asking is simply because I wanted to know if I had the opportunity to do 6x6 without cropping etc. I do have other 6x6 cameras - folders and TLR but I really love the work I am able to produce with the RB - and the project I am doing at jeg moment involves both 6x6 and 6x7 and given the fact that the RB67 has removal backs it would be really awesome to shoot the series on the same camera.

About vignettes.. Improper lens hood could be an interesting thing to do - ill look into that I think.

michaelbsc · Nov 21, 2010

Kim Catton said:
Allright - mixed opinions here.

The reason to why I was asking is simply because I wanted to know if I had the opportunity to do 6x6 without cropping etc. I do have other 6x6 cameras - folders and TLR but I really love the work I am able to produce with the RB - and the project I am doing at jeg moment involves both 6x6 and 6x7 and given the fact that the RB67 has removal backs it would be really awesome to shoot the series on the same camera.

About vignettes.. Improper lens hood could be an interesting thing to do - ill look into that I think.

I have held both RB67 and Graflex 2x3 Speed Graphics graflock roll film backs in my hands. But never both together.

I haven't tried this, so I may be completely wrong. I suspect that the later model Singer RH12 lever wind backs do not fit on the RB67, probably causing trouble with the RB67's interlock mechanisms. (I'm fairly certain the earlier Graflex knob wind ones do not fit.) But I also suspect that the Singer lever wind RH12 insert will fit properly into the body of the RB67's film back. I know that the guts of the Singer 6x6, 6x7, and 6x9 Graflock backs are interchangeable and you can get them mixed up. So, if it does fit, then you would get 12 exposures on the roll with the Singer guts inserted into the RB67 film back.

Without it in front of me I cannot remember where the image masking gate is located (on the back's body or on the insert), so I don't know if it would overlap the image or not. If the mask is in the wrong place (and I think it is in the wrong place) then a bit of judiciously applied Gaffers tape will probably work just fine to get a 6x6 image gate. You could make some slight marks on the RB67's back to guide you in placing the Gaffer's tape if you have to remove and reapply it regularly in the context of the project. And you really ought to have a roll of Gaffer's tape in your kit anyway. It's wonderful stuff.

Proceed on this at your own risk. I have never tried this myself. But do let us know if you try and it works or doesn't work. More knowledge is better, even if it is the knowledge that it doesn't work and the next poor soul shouldn't waste the time!

It's probably cheaper than trying to find one of the rare albino RB67 6x6 film backs. And if it works it would let you use the same camera for both formats for the project.

MB

CGW · Nov 21, 2010

michaelbsc said:
I have held both RB67 and Graflex 2x3 Speed Graphics graflock roll film backs in my hands. But never both together.

I haven't tried this, so I may be completely wrong. I suspect that the later model Singer RH12 lever wind backs do not fit on the RB67, probably causing trouble with the RB67's interlock mechanisms. (I'm fairly certain the earlier Graflex knob wind ones do not fit.) But I also suspect that the Singer lever wind RH12 insert will fit properly into the body of the RB67's film back. I know that the guts of the Singer 6x6, 6x7, and 6x9 Graflock backs are interchangeable and you can get them mixed up. So, if it does fit, then you would get 12 exposures on the roll with the Singer guts inserted into the RB67 film back.

Without it in front of me I cannot remember where the image masking gate is located (on the back's body or on the insert), so I don't know if it would overlap the image or not. If the mask is in the wrong place (and I think it is in the wrong place) then a bit of judiciously applied Gaffers tape will probably work just fine to get a 6x6 image gate. You could make some slight marks on the RB67's back to guide you in placing the Gaffer's tape if you have to remove and reapply it regularly in the context of the project. And you really ought to have a roll of Gaffer's tape in your kit anyway. It's wonderful stuff.

Proceed on this at your own risk. I have never tried this myself. But do let us know if you try and it works or doesn't work. More knowledge is better, even if it is the knowledge that it doesn't work and the next poor soul shouldn't waste the time!

It's probably cheaper than trying to find one of the rare albino RB67 6x6 film backs. And if it works it would let you use the same camera for both formats for the project.

MB

I've puzzled about these sorts of swaps, too. Just looked over my Pro S manual(p. 56-7. The Pro S manual should be available on the butkus site)and found the weird assortment of "P" and "M" adapters that allowed the RB and Mamiya Press backs to get friendly. Kim should check out the Model K roll film back for the Mamiya Press that switched between 6x4.5/6x6 and 6x9(!?).

michaelbsc · Nov 21, 2010

CGW said:
I've puzzled about these sorts of swaps, too. Just looked over my Pro S manual(p. 56-7. The Pro S manual should be available on the butkus site)and found the weird assortment of "P" and "M" adapters that allowed the RB and Mamiya Press backs to get friendly. Kim should check out the Model K roll film back for the Mamiya Press that switched between 6x4.5/6x6 and 6x9(!?).

I've never seen the Mamiya press camera, but all of this stuff is clearly incestuous. Once Mamiya wound up owning it all there was no good reason not to leverage one line's technology to strengthen another line. It's just good business practice.

Hence my expectation that the inserts are all interchangeable, at least all the latter ones. The very old knob winders are probably unworkable. I could be wrong, but I'd bet a cup of coffee and a doughnut it will work.

CGW · Nov 21, 2010

michaelbsc said:
I've never seen the Mamiya press camera, but all of this stuff is clearly incestuous. Once Mamiya wound up owning it all there was no good reason not to leverage one line's technology to strengthen another line. It's just good business practice.

Hence my expectation that the inserts are all interchangeable, at least all the latter ones. The very old knob winders are probably unworkable. I could be wrong, but I'd bet a cup of coffee and a doughnut it will work.

Safe bet. Mamiya obviously wanted to encourage brand loyalty by offering a slew of these retrofit options. The trick now is to find the bits. It's amazing, though, what washes up on the big auction site and important to recognize what's on offer even if the seller doesn't 8^)

Kim, here's the link for the then current back/adapter options for the RB. Check p. 56-7 of the manual:

http://www.butkus.org/chinon/mamiya/mamiya_rb67_pro-s/mamiya_rb67_pro_s.htm

xya · Nov 21, 2010

the mamiya press film holders can be attached indeed via the adapters. they are famous for keeping the film absolutely flat. I've got a k holder + both masks (6x6 and 6x4.5). the k holder is easy to find but the masks are usually missing. for the press models there are even finder masks as well. quite handy, but in the end it's a pain to have to look through the little windows at the back for the next number advancing the film cautiously via the knob.

there is no better thing than a lever. there are graflock lever backs for 6x6 (mine is labeled "singer"). they fit onto one of my mamiya 23's with the rare graflock back. they should also fit onto your rb.

reinhard

michaelbsc · Nov 21, 2010

I think the lever backs with Singer on them will not work the interlocks properly. But this is just a guess. I don\'t have pieces to try it.

But since the interlocks are not all that reliable anyway, it may not matter.

6x6 for RB67?

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency