6x6 collapsable camera

Slixtiesix · Jun 3, 2015

I want to add a small, cheap and lightweight 6x6 120 camera to my collection for occasional use, where my other cameras are to heavy, bulky or precious. First I thought about Holga but the whole concept put me off. The search now goes into the direction of 50s/60s cameras with collapsable lenses like Agfa Isola, Dacora Digna or something like that. What I´m looking for is: 1. a decent lens. At least a triplet. Aperture should be as fast as you can get with these cameras. No f8 achromats please. Having some kind of coating would be nice. 2. a shutter and aperture mechanism with a full range of speeds and apertures. Some of these cameras only have one shuttespeed + B and two aperture settings (f8 and f11). I want to be able to do half-way serious photography, so this would be a no-go. My preferred choice so far is the Dacora Digna with 80/2.9 Correlar, which has speeds of 1/200-1/25 and apertures from 2.9 down to 22, but I´m open to all suggestions!

Jeff Bradford · Jun 3, 2015

Super Isolette

R.Gould · Jun 3, 2015

Perkeo, Baldax or most Zeiss Ikon Ikonta's, Franka's, to name just a few, all have very good lenses, A perkeo or other Voigtlander with a Color Skoper lens is very hard to beat, be careful with an Agfa folder as they used a plastic in a lot of their bellows and you often find the bellows need replacing

xya · Jun 3, 2015

have a look at my page www.120folder.com. I made a comparison chart of the smallest full featured 120 film folders I could get hold of.

pbromaghin · Jun 3, 2015

I have a couple of zone-focusing Ikontas, a 521 and a 523 with Novar lenses. They're both are nice to use. Top speed 1/300. Search for seller certo6 on ebay. He's top of the market but they are all CLA'd, in great condition, and ready to go.

Pioneer · Jun 3, 2015

xya said:
have a look at my page www.120folder.com. I made a comparison chart of the smallest full featured 120 film folders I could get hold of.

That is really good information. Thanks.

conyon · Jun 3, 2015

A very interesting site ... (incl. the links to manual lenses on the A7 too, thanks for sharing)...

conyon · Jun 3, 2015

xya -- A very interesting site ... (incl. the links to manual lenses on the A7 too, thanks for sharing)...

flavio81 · Jun 3, 2015

Slixtiesix said:
I want to add a small, cheap and lightweight 6x6 120 camera to my collection for occasional use, where my other cameras are to heavy, bulky or precious. First I thought about Holga but the whole concept put me off. The search now goes into the direction of 50s/60s cameras with collapsable lenses like Agfa Isola, Dacora Digna or something like that. What I´m looking for is: 1. a decent lens. At least a triplet. Aperture should be as fast as you can get with these cameras. No f8 achromats please. Having some kind of coating would be nice. 2. a shutter and aperture mechanism with a full range of speeds and apertures. Some of these cameras only have one shuttespeed + B and two aperture settings (f8 and f11). I want to be able to do half-way serious photography, so this would be a no-go. My preferred choice so far is the Dacora Digna with 80/2.9 Correlar, which has speeds of 1/200-1/25 and apertures from 2.9 down to 22, but I´m open to all suggestions!

The f2.9 correlar is supposedly a triplet and f2.9 can't be achieved with good performance using a triplet. Triplets of f4.5 or f6.3 speed can be excellent.

The Agfa Isola with the f6.3 agnar lens has a good lens (and coated), but it needs to be calibrated for accurate focus. ALL folders should be re-checked by a technician for accurate focus and accurate alignment of the front standard.

I recommend a Zeiss Ikon Nettar 517/16.

nosmok · Jun 3, 2015

The Balda 6x6 folders can be pretty cheap, and the ones they made for Porst (Hapo 66 and 66e) even cheaper. Lenses were by Enna and take surprisingly good shots. Mechanical wind system takes a little getting used to but once mastered it's nice (no f'ing with the red window past exposure 1).

Slixtiesix · Jun 3, 2015

The f2.9 correlar is supposedly a triplet and f2.9 can't be achieved with good performance using a triplet. Triplets of f4.5 or f6.3 speed can be excellent.

That´s quite useful information! The pictures I have found so far are very blurry indeed. I´m more leaning towards the Isola now... Thanks also XYA for the list. The weight of the Isola is only 300g, that´s only half of what the lightest folders put on the scale. So one point more for the Isola. Only thing that draws me off is that it has only 2 speeds and 2 apertures. Other option would be a Dacora Digna with 75/4,5 triplet. This one has apertures down to f16 and shutter speeds ranging from 1/25 to 1/200. The Nettar looks interesting too, though I´m a bit sceptic because of the old bellows...

I had a look on the Hapo as well and it looks like a serious camera. Rangefinder, frame counter ect....

flavio81 · Jun 4, 2015

(there was a url link here which no longer exists),

Bellows on late 50s (and 60s) Nettars are usually in very very good shape.

While, for example, the plastic bellows on most Agfa folders are usually shot. (Up to a certain point, though, Agfa changed the material to a different material which lasts.)

M Carter · Jun 4, 2015

Another good link, and probably less of a crap shoot when purchasing:

http://www.certo6.com/cameras

Sirius Glass · Jun 4, 2015

I got stunningly sharp photographs from a circa 1933 Certo Super Sport Dolly [Dead Link Removed with a Zeiss lens. I guessed at the distance overhead, used zone focusing and Sunny 16. When I printed it 5"x5" I thought that there was dirt on the window panes. When I enlarged it to 30"x30" on metallic paper the detail showed that each pane of glass had an etched design. I have since sold the camera on APUG. It was the best folding $80 camera I ever had.

Slixtiesix · Jun 5, 2015

Thank you! The Braun Gloria on this site looks very interesting...

Denverdad · Jun 5, 2015

Assuming you're thinking more of a collapsible-lens viewfinder type camera rather than a folder, I can make a few suggestions. When I was on a similar quest, the early versions of the Goldammer Goldeck caught my attention, having Steiner 75mm f/2.9 triplet lenses, in either a Prontor SVS (1/300s) or Pronto (1/200s) shutter. This one is what I ended up with:

Among the many other "lens tube" cameras I discovered in my search, some of the ones which stood out for having faster triplet lenses and more sophisticated multi-speed shutters were these:

Braun Gloria - with Praxar 75mm/2.9 lens in Pronto shutter (1/200s) or Praxanar 75mm/2.9 lens in Prnotor SVS shutter (1/300s)
Braun Paxina 29 - some of the better versions have the Steinar 75mm/2.8 or Praxar 75mm/2.9 lens in Prontor SVS shutter (1/300s)
Braun Paxina 35 - with Praxanar 75mm/3.5 lens in Pronto shutter (1/200s)
Dacora Digna (as previously mentioned ) - with Enna Correlar 80mm/2.9 (up to 1/200s). Also found with Dignar 75mm/4.5 lens in the same shutter
Rodehuser Panta - several different versions with different lenses, the best presumably being the Steinar 75mm/2.8 lens in Pronto shutter (1/200s)
Vredeborch Nordina - Steiner 75mm/4.5 in Vario shutter (3 speeds up to 1/200s)
Agfa Isolly III - can be had with a 60mm Apotar or Agnar f/3.9 lens, in a Pronto shutter. Something of a long shot as it actually records only 4x4 images on 120 film (not 6x6).

Finally, the Isola II has a lot of charm too!. Granted, it's Singlo-2 shutter is somewhat limited with only two shutter speeds and two apertures (f/6.3 maximum), but that Agnar lens is a decent performing triplet. What's more the camera is delightfully light as you mentioned, and also quite sleek looking too, IMO. I do like mine!

Jeff

Slixtiesix · Jun 5, 2015

Jeff, thanks so much! That´s a vast amount of information.

WinnipegTLRFan · Jun 30, 2015

Personally I am partial to the Zeiss Ikon Nettar but figuring out the Zeiss Ikon model designations can be a bit arcane.

Pioneer · Jul 1, 2015

I recently acquired a Certo SS Dolly, version 1 I believe, as it does not have a coupled rangefinder. The lens is a 75mm/f2.9 Steinheil Munchen Cassar and uses a Compur shutter with a 1/250 second top speed. The camera is very compact and weighs pretty close to 1 lb 5.5 ounces without film. So far I have only used it to shoot 6x6 and this lens certainly vignettes at that setting. On the next roll I intend to try 6x4.5 as I am assuming that will eliminate the vignette. Image quality seems to be pretty good but I really haven't done a lot of evaluation so far. Most of my shots have been taken at f11 or higher so they have been pretty good. Next time out I'll load up some TMX and do some test shots with some more challenging subjects and with the lens closer to wide open.

PCC · Jul 1, 2015

A few of the 6X9 folding cameras had 6X6 masks available for them, albeit with longer lenses. I picked up a Franka Rolfix that was in rough shape and it came with the mask as well as a 105mm f/4.5 Schneider Kreuznach Radionar lens.

Sirius Glass · Jul 1, 2015

Pioneer said:
I recently acquired a Certo SS Dolly, version 1 I believe, as it does not have a coupled rangefinder. The lens is a 75mm/f2.9 Steinheil Munchen Cassar and uses a Compur shutter with a 1/250 second top speed. The camera is very compact and weighs pretty close to 1 lb 5.5 ounces without film. So far I have only used it to shoot 6x6 and this lens certainly vignettes at that setting. On the next roll I intend to try 6x4.5 as I am assuming that will eliminate the vignette. Image quality seems to be pretty good but I really haven't done a lot of evaluation so far. Most of my shots have been taken at f11 or higher so they have been pretty good. Next time out I'll load up some TMX and do some test shots with some more challenging subjects and with the lens closer to wide open.

I had a Certo SS Dolly with a Zeiss lens and no range finder. Great folding 6x6.

Slixtiesix · Jul 10, 2015

Finally, I got hold of an Isola II and the first slides are back from the lab. I must admit that I´m very impressed by this little camera! Shutter speeds seem to be okay and the slides are reasonably sharp. Indeed they seem to be very sharp in the center. I had expected some light leaks and I had even exposed the camera to direct sunlight for half an hour to put the red window to a critical test, but to my amazement there are no light leaks at all. I´m also impressed by the built quality, yet this camera is very light and easily fits into the pocket of my jackets. The only thing I regret is that I have not bought it 10 years ago...

pbromaghin · Jul 10, 2015

Alright! Another success story.

M Carter · Jul 11, 2015

I too want a 6x6 folder… I think (besides good glass and a functional camera) that a coupled rangefinder seems like a must. Guess I'm not into focus guessing!

So hat's off to XYA for his chart, very handy reference.

pbromaghin · Jul 11, 2015

M Carter said:
I too want a 6x6 folder I think (besides good glass and a functional camera) that a coupled rangefinder seems like a must. Guess I'm not into focus guessing!

So hat's off to XYA for his chart, very handy reference.

You can save a quite a bit of money by getting an uncoupled rangefinder. Focus it, read the distance off the little dial and set the lens. In my case, I stumbled into a fabulous deal on a really nice zone focuser for $20. Now I have my eye on a CLA'd cold-shoe-mount range finder that Certo6 is selling for $90. So for $110 (plus shutter CLA of course) it will be good to go. Good coupled range finders have pretty high collector demand so they can go for $500+.

6x6 collapsable camera

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