6x6--Buying Used [prob'ly Hassy]

[PamelaHL]

I've decided that I like the square format, so I'm planning to invest a small portion of savings in a 6x6. If I go with a 6x6, I'm going with Hassy, either the 501CM or the 503CW. [At this point, I don't think I need a winder, but if I could get a good deal on a 503CW, I might take that to leave the winder option open.] Incase it helps you answer the questions, I shoot hand-held [usually], natural light, and, often, moving subjects.

So, these are my questions to y'all, the experts:
--As far as I can tell, the 6x7 systems (like Mamiya) don't have masks for 6x6; am I right? Y'all seem to know more than camera stores, which is why I'm asking here!
--In looking at the used Hassy's, I'm getting confused about a few things ...
What is a 501C vs the CM?
Are there disadvantages to a CF lens?
What's the T* lens?
I assume that the 503CX is the predecessor to the CW, which probably means that it doesn't have the smoother mirror gliding system. Anybody have experience with both and an opinion as to whether it's worth the extra expense of going with 501's or CW's?
--Any opinion on the 90 vs. 45 degree prism? Or which prism model is better?
--What's the deal with the ISO maximums?
--Do all lenses have the DOF preview on them?

Any recommendations on where to buy used? I've checked KEH, ebay, here, B&H.

Thanks!
Pamela

 

[Nick Zentena]

I'd suggest KEH or Mpex. Ebay prices can be good but they can be higher. Worse you'll have a greater risk involved. It's also harder to combine shipping so if you save a few dollars on a couple of items you waste even more on shipping.

 

[wfe]

Try Popflash.com. He used to be on eBay but set up on his own. He has some very good pricing on Hasselblad. I have dealt with him a few times with no problems and great equipment. I believe that he buys directly from Europe if that causes you any problems.

Link to the site.

 

[hortense]

This is the book you need: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/ref=s_sf_b_as/002-3662893-6864067
"The Hasselblad Manual" by Ernst Wildi

 

[brent8927]

Hey,

I use a 501C; I have used a 501CM and there is only one main difference, which is that they 501CM has a gliding mirror and what this does is it gives a full image in the viewfinder with lenses over 120mm; with the 500C, 500CM, 501C, you get vignetting in the upper portion, but this only affects viewing and not the image itself that will form on the negative. However, plenty of people use long lenses with pre 501CM Hasselblads.

Personally I liked the 501C more than the 501CM and I've used both. It's probably a personal preference because I used a 501C longer, but I also didn't need the floating mirror since I only use an 80mm and I also didn't like the color of the winder on the 501CM; with the 501C it's black but with the 501CM it's more of a metallic grey/black. This is kind of stupid I know, but for some reason it just bothered me! The 501C also only comes in black trim, but I only wanted a black trim Hasselblad; however, if you want a chrome trim Hasselblad then you'll want to avoid the 501C.

Personally I think ebay is usually the best way to go because it will almost always be cheaper than KEH. My 80mm CF lens in mind condition was $550 but would have been at least $700 at KEH. However, if you can afford KEH, definetely buy from them; I've yet to be disappointed from them (I bought my 501C body from them and was very happy with it; 501C bodies don't show up often on ebay and aren't usually in mint condition, and I wanted a mint condition 501C body)

The disadvantage with the CF lenses is that they're older, so if you buy used there's more of a change they'll be beat up. Of course, I found one in mint condition so you can find them. They also use an older spring, which apparently doesn't last as long as the ones in the CFI or CFE lenses. I never worried about that though.

What's nice about the CF lenses is that they are cheaper than the newer models. After using a CB lens (the same as the CFE, or maybe it's CFI for the 80mm, except it has one less element; cosmetically it's the same except for the color of the markings) I found I prefered the handling and design of the CF. Maybe this is because I used a CF for so long, who knows.

I think the advantage of the 503 cameras are if you're doing flash photography; I could be wrong, I never used them, but I knew I didn't need the extra benefits they offered. I believe the 503CXI is the current model.

As far as prism go, I can't help you much; I hated them and the thing I like most about my Hasselblad is the waist level finder; if it had a fixed prism I wouldn't have bought it, I really enjoy using the waist level finder.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by ISO maximums, so I don't know if I can help you there.

I know all CF and newer lenses have depth of field preview levers, but I don't know about the older C lenses. The late "C" lens (looks like a CF lens and came with the 501C kit) also has the depth of field preview.

I partially answered the question on where to buy equipment already, but once again, if you have the money, go with KEH. I think B&H charges a lot more for used equipment, and the cheapest source is always Ebay. If you buy from someone with good feedback (for camera equipment I usually only guy if they have at least 50 feedback and more than a %98 positive rating) then you probably don't have anything to worry about. Do ask if they will accept a return and make sure you ask about marks on the glass or multicoating that might not be visible in photographs they show. Also, if the person lives close by, ask if you can take a look at the camera. Even better is when these people have low (but positive) feedback, because then very few people want to pay much for the equipment but you can afford to take the risk because you can pick up the camera and inspect it (as long as the seller lets you of course, otherwise I'd pass on them).

I think I wrote enough to bore you to death... Sorry!

 

[PamelaHL]

Thanks so much! I was waiting for email notification & didn't get it..wish I'd checked sooner! I really appreciate your insight. I'm gonna do some more snooping around. I am confused as to whether the 503CW has TTL exposuring for just flash or for everything ... and I'm trying to decide whether I'll even care about that or about winder capabilities someday. I'd appreciate any insights. Thanks so much!
Edited to add this question: Any thoughts on whether the gliding mirror system makes the 501CM smoother and quieter, as one salesperson told me?

 

[brent8927]

Unfortunately I don't know anything else about the 503CW, so I can't help you there.

I do know that at least one person said that the gliding mirror system creates a larger vacuum that sucks up more dust. However, I'm fairly sure he told me that just because he wanted me to sell my 501CM body at a much lower price, and was trying to convince me that it wasn't as good as the older models; wasn't the most polite guy in the world... Anyway, I sold the body to someone else!

While I wasn't able to compare the 501C (no gliding mirror system) with the 501CM (with gliding mirror system) side by side, I don't remember thinking, "Wow... this 501CM sure is loud!" Well... no more so than a normal Hassy it seemed... they are loud to begin with!

I would say even if the 501CM isn't smoother (or is less smooth) than the pre-gliding mirror system Hassys, then I doubt it will be a bother at all; so many people cherish whatever Hasselblad they have and as far as I know they're all very wonderful cameras.

 

[Magnus W]

I am confused as to whether the 503CW has TTL exposuring for just flash or for everything

Just for flash.

-- MW

 

[Dan Henderson]

I've decided that I like the square format, so I'm planning to invest a small portion of savings in a 6x6. If I go with a 6x6, I'm going with Hassy, either the 501CM or the 503CW. [At this point, I don't think I need a winder, but if I could get a good deal on a 503CW, I might take that to leave the winder option open.] Incase it helps you answer the questions, I shoot hand-held [usually], natural light, and, often, moving subjects.

So, these are my questions to y'all, the experts:
--As far as I can tell, the 6x7 systems (like Mamiya) don't have masks for 6x6; am I right? Y'all seem to know more than camera stores, which is why I'm asking here!
--In looking at the used Hassy's, I'm getting confused about a few things ...
What is a 501C vs the CM?
Are there disadvantages to a CF lens?
What's the T* lens?
I assume that the 503CX is the predecessor to the CW, which probably means that it doesn't have the smoother mirror gliding system. Anybody have experience with both and an opinion as to whether it's worth the extra expense of going with 501's or CW's?
--Any opinion on the 90 vs. 45 degree prism? Or which prism model is better?
--What's the deal with the ISO maximums?
--Do all lenses have the DOF preview on them?

Any recommendations on where to buy used? I've checked KEH, ebay, here, B&H.

Thanks!
Pamela

It looks like someone already answered lots of your questions so I'll just give you my experience. I bought a 500CM Hassie kit from B&H several years ago. I've since added a 150 lens to the 80 that came with the kit, another magazine so I can shoot film for normal and normal + development as circumstances change during a shoot, and a Kiev prism finder, which I tend to use more than the waist level finder.

The camera has been reliable except for 2 times that it did the infamous Hasselblad trip and lockup. Fortunately there is a wonderful old Polish man nearby who runs a camera repair shop and prefers mechanical over electronic cameras.

I use the Hassie almost exclusively on a tripod for landscape-type images or the occasional portrait. I'm not sure how much I'd like it if I had to use it handheld, but working off a tripod is just my bias.

Finally, regarding the square format: I am drawn to that too and it is one of the things I like about shooting 2 1/4. Like Monte Zucker says, you never have to decide whether to hold the camera vertically or horizontally! But if you end up with a 6x7 format camera you could always crop your images into a square format.

 

[Dan Henderson]

I've decided that I like the square format, so I'm planning to invest a small portion of savings in a 6x6. If I go with a 6x6, I'm going with Hassy, either the 501CM or the 503CW. [At this point, I don't think I need a winder, but if I could get a good deal on a 503CW, I might take that to leave the winder option open.] Incase it helps you answer the questions, I shoot hand-held [usually], natural light, and, often, moving subjects.

So, these are my questions to y'all, the experts:
--As far as I can tell, the 6x7 systems (like Mamiya) don't have masks for 6x6; am I right? Y'all seem to know more than camera stores, which is why I'm asking here!
--In looking at the used Hassy's, I'm getting confused about a few things ...
What is a 501C vs the CM?
Are there disadvantages to a CF lens?
What's the T* lens?
I assume that the 503CX is the predecessor to the CW, which probably means that it doesn't have the smoother mirror gliding system. Anybody have experience with both and an opinion as to whether it's worth the extra expense of going with 501's or CW's?
--Any opinion on the 90 vs. 45 degree prism? Or which prism model is better?
--What's the deal with the ISO maximums?
--Do all lenses have the DOF preview on them?

Any recommendations on where to buy used? I've checked KEH, ebay, here, B&H.

Thanks!
Pamela

Oh yeah, durability: my Hassie survived a tumble into the mud/water at the edge of a lake. Try that with a digital camera!

 

[Ed Sukach]

I've decided that I like the square format, ...

So do I.

I'll make an attempt to answer those questions that seem to have been left..

Are there disadvantages to a CF lens?

Nothing that I'd consider to be major. The EV (Exposure Value) scale and the Infra-Red index mark (the more I consider the latter, the more I think that its removal was a very good idea), are gone. The newer lenses have one feature I would really like: a PC - flash connector - lock to keep the flash cord connected to the lens. The later lenses have Prontor shutters, instead of the Synchro Compurs. Hasselblad says that choice was made because the Prontors proved to be more reliable that the Compurs.

What's the T* lens?

It is a muti-layered coating - supposedly very beneficial, compared to the "old" coating. I don't have an opinion about this - I've never used anything else.

--Any opinion on the 90 vs. 45 degree prism? Or which prism model is better?

The 45 degree prism can be used with a Polaroid back, the 90 cannot. I use the 45 ... at first, it takes some "getting used to", but that is a very rapid process. I suppose I'd find the 90 to be really awkward now. With the square format, there is no worry about "verticals" - so the 45 is fine as far as I'm concerned.

--What's the deal with the ISO maximums?

I'm not sure of the question here. The "more common" 'Blads (500 series) are all manually set. It is only when one gets to the $tratospheric "Electronic" auto-exposure 200 series that the "maximum ISO index" would be relevant.
There are "Metered Prisms" that have built-in exposre meters - "spot" and "averaging" ... but one has to set the f/ stop and aperture maunually, using the information they provide.

Thanks!
Pamela

De nada! Happy to help wherever I can.

BTW ... I *LOVE* the sound - shutter, mirror, body/ lens mechanicals, magazine - of the Hasselblad. Noisy? I don't know. I'm considering recording the sound and playing it back when I drive my car, or sleep.

 

[jjstafford]

It was David Vestal, I think, who spoke fondly of the format saying: "You can crop the square anywhere."

 

[PamelaHL]

Y'all are a wealth of information! I'm feeling so relieved after soaking in all that you've posted here. I'm also feeling excited rather than anxious about this purchase, since I'm more certain of what I want [and since it's cheaper]. I look forward to reading more! Thanks.

 

[psvensson]

I would look at the Bronica SQ series too. It's a bit cheaper, and in my mind a better design than the Hasselblad I've used, a 500C. KEH has a lot of cheap SQ bodies and lenses.

 

[brent8927]

I heard the modern Bronica's really aren't too great, especially compared with what Hasselblad and Mamiya have to offer; if you wanted a cheacp slr, I'd go with the Bronica S2A- that was my first medium format camera and a lens back and body only cost about $200-$300. It uses Nikkor lenses which are just fantastic!

However, I sold my entire Bronica S2A kit (50mm, 75mm, 200mm lenses, prism finder, couple backs, two grips, everything else I really didn't need in the first place) to buy a Hasselblad (501C, 80mm CF lens, and A12 back), and the Bronica kit (where I actually made a bit of a profit, it sold for $800) only paid for half of my Hasselblad; this of course was a few years ago when Hasselblads were a little more expensive on the used market.

Anyway, I never regretted the move; I did regret seling a camera that I had used for a year or so, so that made me sad, but the Hasselblad was just so much nicer to use! What I regret most was selling that Hasselblad to fund a move to 4x5, which didn't last, so I ended up getting a 501CM with a CB lens, only to resell that and buy the same setup I had before- the 501C with 80 CF lens.

 

[Stuart Turnbull]

Hiya,,

I've been using a Bronica SQAI for the last 4 years with 80mm, 40mm & 200mm lenses respectively. I must admit that the images produced are absolutely superb. You can pick up a lot of cheap Bronica right now. I can see no difference in quality between my own images using a SQAI and those of some friends of mine who are 'Blad' owners. The real difference is of course in the price as you are paying for the Hasselblad name. Brilliant cameras by the way, but initial costs at outlay made me go Bronica-Just my own personal experience, something you may or may not want to consider. The best of luck anyway

 

[c6h6o3]

I have a 503CXi, which is the same camera as the CW except that it doesn't have the gliding mirror. But you pay dearly for that TTL flash meter.

The only reason I'd get the CW is to have both the gliding mirror and the TTL flash. The gliding mirror is really desireable if you're going to use any lens of 150mm focal length and longer. When I use my 250mm Sonnar, there's about 1/4" clipped off the top of the ground glass image. Drives me nuts.

Since the 501CM has the gliding mirror, I'd get that.

 

[c6h6o3]

Hasselblad has stopped manufacturing parts for the C lenses. They'll still service them, but once the parts inventory runs out, that's it.

However, I have two C lenses that are nearly as old as I am which still work perfectly.

 

[André E.C.]

Hey,

I use a 501C; I have used a 501CM and there is only one main difference, which is that they 501CM has a gliding mirror and what this does is it gives a full image in the viewfinder with lenses over 120mm; with the 500C, 500CM, 501C, you get vignetting in the upper portion, but this only affects viewing and not the image itself that will form on the negative. However, plenty of people use long lenses with pre 501CM Hasselblads.
!

Well, I strongly disagree with this statement Brent, indeed there`s vignetting on the 500C, 500CM and 501C with long lenses caused by the short size of the mirror, but that happen with lenses longer than 150mm and not 120mm.
I own one 500CM and one Sonnar 150mm and never saw it on my viewfinder.

Cheers

André

 

[c6h6o3]

I own one 500CM and one Sonnar 150mm and never saw it on my viewfinder.

I see it very slightly with my 150. But with the 250, it's like the viewfinder has been masked. I would imagine that it's pretty bad with the 180mm lens, too.

 

[Ed Sukach]

Well, I strongly disagree with this statement Brent, indeed there`s vignetting on the 500C, 500CM and 501C with long lenses caused by the short size of the mirror, but that happen with lenses longer than 150mm and not 120mm.
I own one 500CM and one Sonnar 150mm and never saw it on my viewfinder.

You've lost me here ... Just WHERE is this vignetting? - on the image in the viewfinder or on the film plane?

 

[brent8927]

André, thanks for the correction. I've never used anything other than an 80mm lens, I had been told that the 120mm will cause a little vignetting, but it looks like I got some bad information!

Ed, I do know for a fact that the vignetting is only in the viewfinder, not the film plane, so your photographs will turn out fine.

 

[André E.C.]

André, thanks for the correction. I've never used anything other than an 80mm lens, I had been told that the 120mm will cause a little vignetting, but it looks like I got some bad information!

I don`t know other individuals experiences, I`ve tried one 180mm and indeed the vignetting issue was noticeable, until 150mm everything fine with my 500CM.

Ed, the effect is visible on the screen, nothing to do with the film.

Cheers

André