645 suggestions please

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Mark Fisher

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If you really want something that is more portable, I think that you may want to consider a Fuji GA645zi or other Fuji fixed lens cameras. I have a Hasselblad kit and the Fuji 645zi when I want portability. I sometimes miss the close focus capability, but the Fuji is really a remarkable camera. The lens quality is as good as any fixed prime lens....really. The lens is slow, but with the leaf shutter, you can hand hold it down to 1/15 on a good day. The only thing I don't like about it is that it is noisy....focus and film advance. Still a great beast. This is about $5-700 on KEH. The Bronica 645 rangefinder seems nice too, but a bit less common, although I see KEH has one now.
All that said, you wouldn't be disappointed in the Pentax either.
 

GRHazelton

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OP, GRHazelton's summary is well worth reading. I think he has summed up the 645N in a very readable way

I think the only point I would add is that the AF can be a little slow when attempting to take pics of kids between say toddling age and when they will at least stop for a second and listen to you.This is the perpetual and unpredictable motion age :D My experience of snapping a very lively granddaughter is limited but the AF often failed to keep up. The 645N will take great negs in this kind of shooting but just be prepared for a few focus failures in the way that might not happen with a F5 and AF lens

pentaxuser

Thanks for the kind words! I can't comment on the AF, since I have no AF lenses. The focus indicator in the VF is handy, although for those of us who grew up before AF the enormous VF on the 645 cameras makes focussing, and with luck, follow focussing not too much of a crap shoot. I wonder if the sheer size of 645 AF lenses makes AF for moving targets more difficult.
 
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abhishek@1985

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Thanks guys for all the querries and info.. I think I have made up my mind and its gonna be the Pentax 645N or Nii with the 75mm f2.8 FA lens to begin with.
Will now start the market research to find one in great condition..
 

hamfisted

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645 Systems

First off, I should say that I prefer German Engineering and Optics.. secondly, I would like to admit that mostly all German stuff is overpriced and/or rather expensive. I have recently purchased 2 ETRSi bodies, a motor drive, a speed grip, a regular prism and a metered prism, 2x120 backs, 1x220 back, a 150mm, a 50mm and 2x 75mm lenses for less than $400 (2 separate purchases) and I attribute my success to the 6.2 volt Silver Oxide battery. So here is how it happened. The ETRSi and the Pentax 6x7 share a common feature. The shutter is operated by the 6.2 volt power source. Without the battery, the ETRSi will only fire at 1/500th of a second and the Pentax, well.. without a battery, it just will not work. The solution? Buy extra batteries.. the silver oxide has a 7+year shelf life and are fairly cheap when bought in bulk (I bought 20 for about $50) although with the early Pentax (the 6x7, not the 67) there is a bypass trick.. you can jury rig (4xaa=6v) a remote energy source for your time exposures as the 6x7 uses juice all through the exposure and is the reason for constant battery failure. Anyway, about the 645.. both cameras had battery issues. One had a new battery but the motor drive (uses 6xAA) had a design flaw. The battery contact is a rivet that can go bad if the unattended power pack is left loaded in storage. The corrosion between the rivet and the metal strap kept the contacts from.. well contacting. Took me about 10 minutes to fix it by stripping a piece of copper wire and following the pathway to assure contact. I purchased this camera with a Pentax 6x7 which in addition to being a pain to cock and fire, it also had a bad battery. The second ETRSi I bought simply had a bad 6volt battery which also had the effect of not being able to cock and fire the shutter.

So the point? Check the battery. Many people just give up, sell or trade and I am the benificiary of their impatience.

Ahhhh... my first post!
 

revdocjim

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Congratulations hamfisted! A little knowledge is worth a lot. In your case it sounds like more than just a little, and it is clearly paying off for you! Happy shooting!
 

Noble

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Thinking of selling my Leica M2 and the voigtlander 40mm for a 645 medium format.

Why sell them? If you are patient and depending on what you get you should be able to get a pretty good MF SLR rig for $300 or less. An ETRSI with speed grip, metered prism, and 75mm PE lens should be about $300 on a certain auction site.

Medium format is different from 35mm. I shoot mostly medium format but I still keep a 35mm camera handy. If you don't need a high degree of automation I would go with the Bronica ETRSI and try and get it at a good price point. If you get it at a reasonable price you will be able to sell it without much of a loss if you change your mind or if you decide to move up in formats or get a camera with more automation.
 

Slixtiesix

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Does it have to be a SLR? If you want a lightweight camera with good lenses for landscape, the Mamiya 6 or 7 might be worth a try. Since you already have a Leica I assume you may like the rangefinder?
 

dorff

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Does it have to be a SLR? If you want a lightweight camera with good lenses for landscape, the Mamiya 6 or 7 might be worth a try. Since you already have a Leica I assume you may like the rangefinder?

For landscapes, a Pentax 6x7 with a 45 and/or 55 to me just makes a lot more sense than a Mamiya 6 or 7. In terms of cost there will be a big difference, and in terms of suitability too. Landscapes without a near foreground to me look somewhat one-dimensional, and therefore one would try to get close subjects in to give dimension. The problem with rangefinders is exact framing with close subjects. Of course this can probably be learned through practice, but I would prefer to use an SLR for such work. Of course there are many that will differ from me in this respect. An advantage of the Pentax system is that it can be expanded with many more lenses, at a much lower cost than the Mamiya rangefinders. The Mamiya lens range is much more restricted, although the lenses are absolutely superb.
 

j.c.denton

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It has been said several times already, but I have to throw in another vote for the Pentax 645N. It is just so much fun to use. The comparison to an 35mm on stereoids is perfect: fire & forget. It is very handholdable, AE works reliable and focus is adequately fast. My lens arsenal consists of the FA 45/2.8, FA 75/2.8 and the FA 200/4.0. The 45mm is indeed weak at the boarders as several reviewers already noted. But the 75/2.8 and 200/4.0 are astonishing. I also own the Pentax 67 adapter and it is fun to use those manual lenses on the comfortable 645N body.

The 645N II has some gimmicks to offer like additional imprint data, more custom functions which can be set at a Pentax service center, a different surface finish and mirror lock-up. They are all nice to have, but not necessary. I would go for an 645N II if the price is very good, otherwise go for an 645N, you won't miss anything.

For your interest, here is a comparison of the imprint data between both models:

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8652/00oz88419422841.jpg

Christian
 

Top-Cat

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I have a Mamiya Pro TL, if you can get that or and AFD, you won't regret it.

The AFD is probably the better choice if you want a hybrid (digital/analog) solution in the future.

Other than that, I suggest 6X6, as it's a really beautiful format. I have a few folding cameras I use for 6X6, and there's just something about it.
 

tnabbott

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I vote for the Pentax. One great feature of this camera is that you can use Pentax 67 glass via a Pentax adapter. Works seamlessly.

I had the Mamiya 645 camera too, but found two things I did not like: (1) film back has a tendency to become loose; and (2) lenses were made of cheap plastic.

The downside to the Pentax is that you cannot change film mid-roll or attach a digital back. Other than this, the Pentax is a better design IMHO.
 

Top-Cat

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I had the Mamiya 645 camera too, but found two things I did not like: (1) film back has a tendency to become loose; and (2) lenses were made of cheap plastic.

Not really the case, some lenses are made of plastic, others are metal. There's not one part of my Pro TL package that fits the describtion "cheap plastic", and the 200mm 2.8 APO has a construction that could in no way be described as "cheap".
 

k_jupiter

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Not really the case, some lenses are made of plastic, others are metal. There's not one part of my Pro TL package that fits the describtion "cheap plastic", and the 200mm 2.8 APO has a construction that could in no way be described as "cheap".

I concur. Nothing in any of my medium format Mamiya kits is cheaply made. You have to abuse it severely to break it. That goes from my 645 to rb67 to C220 gear.

tim in san jose
 

SafetyBob

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I went with the Mamiya 645 Pro years back because as stated way earlier, availability of all options are still there and price point is good and only getting better. As for TTL in the Pro II, haven't missed it yet as all the old potato masher monster flashes work perfectly for it.....and there is nothing like showing up somewhere with your 645 armed with a potato masher, most folks have never seen one these days!

My only fuss with the 645 is that since it is manual focus, you really have to be on your game if you desire to follow kids around playing. Normally I hit 50% when doing so.......I have had to resort to my aging F4 or wonderful F5 to chase kids around with film.

I think you will find that none of us have never been unhappy with any medium format choice we have made. The quality improvement is so substantial that it's worth the hassle every time. And when you get everything right and the result is a spectacular photograph......then you know why you put up with the hassle. That, and honestly, it will take many, many more years and hundreds of photos to truly say "I have reached the limits that this camera can produce, I need something better." 35mm brought me into photography when I was young, medium format challanges me to be the best photographer I am. Have fun with yours.

Bob E.
 

revdocjim

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Sorry to deviate off topic for just a moment here, but SafetyBob, why are you even trying to shoot playing kids with manual focus cameras anyway??? Clearly there are better tools for that task. Your 50% success rate makes that obvious enough. Add composition, timing and lighting issues onto that and you must get very few pleasing results. And yet you continue to throw away 50% of your film after paying for it and processing it. What could possibly be motivating you to do this? Do you ever use AF cameras?
 

agfarapid

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First of all, don't sell your Leica kit. You will always find a rationale for your M2 down the road. I have a large assortment of medium format equipment plus my M3 with assorted lenses. Although it doesn't get as much use as before I stepped into MF, I picked it up last week and renewed my acquaintance and had a blast shooting quickly and unobtrusively. Now, regarding which one to get--if your main rationale for moving to 645 is to have lighter rig to carry out--suggest you handle one of the above first. I have a 500C as well as a Mamiya Super. The Mamiya with prism and motor grip ways about as much as the 'Blad and is virtually the same size. Your main difference will be in how you shoot. You'll probably be moving from a waist level finder on your 6x6 to a prism with your 645. That will change how your compose frame your subject. This will be your most overriding concern as you consider changing equipment. You might find that for landscape, a WLF is better for style of work.
 
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