645 choice

Get back to it, stop worrying about what camera to use, if you change you won't get better images.

The images are made by you not the camera. You use a 5x4 where the image is upside down & back to front, so come onlooking down at a back to front viewing screen shouldn't faze you. It's no big deal and actually helps composition.

Ian

AlanC said:

Rolleijoe,
Thanks for your comments.
My problem is that I am trying to do two new things. For years I did landscapes; mostly with 35mm but also on 5 x 4. Now I'm trying to photograph people at work, who have this habit of moving around, and I'm trying to do it with a camera which requires me to look down into a viewing screen. Takes some getting used to.

You mention a Mamiya 7. I was wondering if this could be my solution, as I am very much at home looking through a 35mm type viewfinder. The bigger negative would certainly help to get good quality large prints.

Alan Clark

Click to expand...

Hi Alan,

No Problem. But the Mamiya M645 Pro uses an AEPrism, and you use it just like a 35mm. No problem with that at all. It's not a TLR (which by the way I've used for everything from night sports to weddings, using the "sports finder" feature of the WLF. Most people forget it's even there. I prefer WLF, but that's what feels natural for me).

The Mamiya 7 is a rangefinder, so there's that horrid split image focusing to deal with, and the lenses/etc are MUCH more expensive than the 645.

With the 7 you get 9 shots per roll, 645 gives you 15, and it's already MF, so there's no worries about grain.

Look at KEH (not B&H, sorry) website and see the price differences for yourself. I've bought lots of things from them, and have never had a problem. You'll find them highly recommended not only here but other serious forums.

Good luck, and let me know how it turns out for you!

Rolleijoe

Bronica RF645

Good lenses, good meter, great ergonomics; handles like a 35mm camera (save for the vertical orientation). I think it is ideal if you are shooting people at work.

Ian,
You think I'm shilly-shallying around and are kicking me up the backside to get me going! No need to, as I am working hard at this, trying different things; printing, comparing.
The reason I want to get it right is that the photographs from this project- hill farming in the North York Moors-will be going into a specially created archive in the local folk museum. They would prefer A4 size paper, which would be the perfect ratio and size for 35mm format photographs. But they could create a 10 x 8 space, and this size would obviously be better for 645 6x7 and 6x6. They would think it odd if I opted for A4 then gave them all square pictures. So rather than jump in I'm taking my time to think things through.
They have a very nice gallery where some of the photographs would be exhibited, and I would like to do some large prints for this (and maybe other exhibitions) This complicates the issue; otherwise I would do the whole thing on 35mm.

Rolleijoe, you are right about Mamiya 645 prices. Half the orice of Pentax 645. I've just checked. And bigger lens choice than Bronica RF645, mentioned by Micek.

Thanks for your support.
Alan Clark

But the farming season is about half over (at least over here). Unless you are going to go 6x7 or 6x9, the cost to get going with what I suggested is probably the cheapest. Draw the lines and start shooting with what you have. Otherwise you could dump a large amount of money into a Mamiya 7II system which a few people claim has some of the best optics ever produced for a camera of that film size. But it is going to cost you to go with this choice as the gear is still a current model, and somewhat expensive because it is somewhat of a niche product.

Greg,
The farmers are tough round here, they work all the year round! In any case, I see this project as ongoing...
I've already drawn the lines on the screen and am working on waist level shooting as Ian suggested. Can't have him thinking I'm a wimp. He will be telling us next that he hand holds his 10 x 8 camera....
If your suggestions work out then I'll get a wider lens for the SQ

Many thanks,

Alan Clark

I think the SQ will be fine if you buy a prism to go with it. Sometimes you just need to have a prism, there is no other way to put it. But that said, so much these days is shot with a prism at standing level that having images made from mid level meet be different enough now to make an impact.

The only downside of shooting the 6x6 and cropping in the veiwfinder and in the darkroom is that you will get 3 less frames per roll than if you went with a real 645 back. I think I would just roll with it unless you really want to get a different camera. If you really want a different camera system, I'm partial to the Mamiya 645 1000s (generation1) or the Super/Pro/ProTL (generation 2). Since changing film speeds mid roll might be advantageous, I think I would recommend a generation 2 body, or maybe if money was not an object a generation 3 body (AF/AFD/AFDII/AFDIII) as both the gen2 and gen3 bodies have a film back. I'm happy with the m645 stuff that I have, it's cheap to pick up the manual focus stuff, and seems to be durable enough.

Also back to the lines... Remember that most viewfinders do not show the entire frame, most are somwhere in the 92% to 95% real film area. IF you draw the lines on the screen at the real film size for 645 (56mm X 42mm) then you will have 100% of the frame shown in the viewfinder. Make sure to take this into consideration when framing subjects. Since the SQ viewfinder is probably only showing about 55mm or 54mm (square) then you may want to move the the short side for the lines in a millimeter or so. Sorry, I forgot to mention this until just now, hopefully it won't mess you up too much.

Thanks again Greg for all the information. I did draw the lines as you have just suggested as I had noticed that my viewfinder didn't include the full frame.
Alan

OK, good. I'm surprised it slipped my mind when I first suggested it.

AlanC said:

Rolleijoe,
Thanks for your comments.
My problem is that I am trying to do two new things. For years I did landscapes; mostly with 35mm but also on 5 x 4. Now I'm trying to photograph people at work, who have this habit of moving around, and I'm trying to do it with a camera which requires me to look down into a viewing screen. Takes some getting used to.

You mention a Mamiya 7. I was wondering if this could be my solution, as I am very much at home looking through a 35mm type viewfinder. The bigger negative would certainly help to get good quality large prints.

Click to expand...

Since you wrote this I see you've gone with using the ETRsi, and marking the screen up for 645.

That sounds like a good solution to me and you still have the full square frame if you want to vary some of your compositions, and it will help if you want any big prints to spice up the exhibition you mentioned (obviously).

But -

I do see what you meant about the shots where people are moving about a lot though. I'm fond of MF rangefinders and have a number of the Fuji ones. The 6x7 and 6x9 machines are wonderful, and comparable to the Mamiya 7 that you mention. But have you thought about the Fuji 645 rangefinders?

The older ones (real rangefinders, not AF) are a relative bargain now, and the GS 645S is a lovely camera for the sort of reportage/documentary project you describe. It has a 60mm f4 lens so is a moderate wide angle with a 'natural' portrait orientation, though it is easy to hold in landscape orientation too. The lens is extremely sharp, and I've found the meter is acurate too. Oh, and it takes 220 film if you want it to, so you can have 30 shots without reloading.

If you find that the ETRsi is proving difficult for some of the more 'action' type shots, the little Fuji might be a very nice addition to, rather that replacement for, that system.

There's not much to go wrong with them, though I had to replace a metering circuit once. The only non-obvious thing really to look out for is is to see if the shutter needs a service.

Just a thought...



Peter

I remember watching the special features stuff on the Lost in Translation DVD. Sofia Coppola is walking around with a Fuji GA or GZ 645 camera snapping shots left and right. It was pretty hot.

If you use the "Sports Finder" feature built into the WLF on TLRs, you can actually hold the camera up to you eye, and follow the action around, with no problem.

Rolleijoe

Peter,
Thanks for the good advice. I am still trying out various options , including the sports finder method on my TLR mentioned by Rolliejoe.
At the same time I'm getting on with things with mt 35mm camera.
Alan