5x7 negative scanning

Curt · Feb 15, 2010

First post here, I bought an Epson 4990 scanner, not here yet, and it doesn't come with a 5x7 negative holder. For those with this scanner and scan 5x7 negatives what are you doing for a holder, are there after market models or have you made one at home?

Thanks,
Curt

sanking · Feb 15, 2010

Curt said:
First post here, I bought an Epson 4990 scanner, not here yet, and it doesn't come with a 5x7 negative holder. For those with this scanner and scan 5x7 negatives what are you doing for a holder, are there after market models or have you made one at home?

Thanks,
Curt

Depending on your pocketbook there are two good choices.

One is to purchase a Betterscanning mounting station. The station provides an easy mechanism for setting the holder to the plane of best focus, and it also allows for flat mounting, either dry or wet, to the underside of a piece of glass. The station works vere well.

Another solution is to purchase a piece of AN glass (anti-glare glass from framing shop works ok for this) cut to a size that will allow it to fit over the existing glass of your scanner. Then you use small washers to determine the plane of best focus, and you can mount the negative to the AN side of the glass dry mount, or fluid mount if you like.

The best plane of focus of Epson 4990 varies from about 1mm to as high as 2.5mm above the glass. If you lay the negative directly on the glass you you not have the best position for optimum sharpness.

Sandy King

Curt · Feb 16, 2010

sanking said:
Depending on your pocketbook there are two good choices.

One is to purchase a Betterscanning mounting station. The station provides an easy mechanism for setting the holder to the plane of best focus, and it also allows for flat mounting, either dry or wet, to the underside of a piece of glass. The station works vere well.

Another solution is to purchase a piece of AN glass (anti-glare glass from framing shop works ok for this) cut to a size that will allow it to fit over the existing glass of your scanner. Then you use small washers to determine the plane of best focus, and you can mount the negative to the AN side of the glass dry mount, or fluid mount if you like.

The best plane of focus of Epson 4990 varies from about 1mm to as high as 2.5mm above the glass. If you lay the negative directly on the glass you you not have the best position for optimum sharpness.

Sandy King

Thank you very much Sandy, I went over the Betterscanning web site and believe that this is the best way to go. I sent them a request for the formats I intend to scan. It appears that like an adjustable focus screen on a camera the scanner too has to be checked and adjusted for the optimum focus. I like that, it gives me confidence that the system is accurate and professional.

I'm starting out with this scanner and will upgrade later to a higher grade model. As you may know from the other Carbon forums I've just started Carbon Transfer photography and have after three sessions and five prints finally made my first Carbon Print. Not perfect in any sense but an intact complete image with relief and it's beautiful to me.

I have come to believe that the process can be learned in days or weeks, refined in years and mastered in decades. It's a great alternative to what I always wanted to do but the timing was wrong and the materials came and went and I grew too old to start from scratch, not enough time. That process is/was Dye Transfer. Given that I was prepared to spend considerable amounts of time on it I feel that Carbon is right for me at this time.

I'm using in-camera negative now but I feel that I will have little choice but to learn and go with digital negative in the future because I will most likely be using a Mamiya 7II and scanning do to my physical condition, age and the need to travel.

It may just come together for me at last, now to look at a beginner printer for Pictorico. I may have to sell a lot of my film camera systems to pare down to the essentials to make room for prints, prints, prints.

Thanks,
Curt

pellicle · Feb 16, 2010

Hi

I use the betterscanning holder for 120 in 6x12 (and the standard holder for 4x5). They work very well. I have been actively considering actually removing the glass under the holder and make up something to hold the holder. This eliminates two sides of a bit of glass and therefore some dust surfaces and sources of image quality loss.

The AN glass on the better scanning holder is on the light source side so essentially does not effect what the lens sees.

naturally I can kiss goodbye to its document ability, but I have another LiDE scanner for that anyway

Joe Lipka · Feb 16, 2010

I had a bunch of 5x7 negs to scan and I wound up cutting a mat board with the outline of a 4 x 5 negative holder and then cut the window to the 5 x 7 size.

Worked just dandy.

Curt · Feb 17, 2010

I installed the software last night and got the scanner up and running. I scanned two 4x5 negatives in the Epson holder and the results were excellent. I received a reply from Betterscanning that said they don't specifically have holder for 5x7. Their method is to get a holder that's 8x10 with glass and to tape the negative to the bottom of the AN glass and use a mask, which I would have to cut, from their material to cover the negative to suit my needs. I wonder if the negative will sag even though they said to use 3M Magic tape and stretch it the best you can. The glass is above the negative so the glass acts as a heat protector.

The scanner is very nice and is easy to use. Maybe what's needed is a tiny vacuum frame.

Curt

Dan Williams · Feb 17, 2010

Joe Lipka said:
I had a bunch of 5x7 negs to scan and I wound up cutting a mat board with the outline of a 4 x 5 negative holder and then cut the window to the 5 x 7 size.

Worked just dandy.

Joe, What weight mat board are you using? Black? I have scanned 5x7's just laying them on the glass. I know they are low quality scans but when scanned at low res for web use, they were OK.

Dan

pellicle · Feb 18, 2010

Curt

Curt said:
I installed the software last night and got the scanner up and running. I scanned two 4x5 negatives in the Epson holder and the results were excellent.

great

The scanner is very nice and is easy to use. Maybe what's needed is a tiny vacuum frame.

can't say I see the need myself, I've not found that the adjustment is critical to within one mm and my 4x5 never has that much buckle. The adjustment is not "whap you in the face" significant so much as subtle.

Worth noting is that if you ever scan a document or change the scanner for "film area guide" to "film holder" also you change the alignment of bits in the scan head ... I seriously doubt they are compliant to such high tolerances.

I know as I've been playing with scan of a clear plastic ruler propped up at one end with some coins and using the notches of mm spacing to determin my focus point. This gives me a slanted plane at which to determine best elevation

- I scan and record which number is at best register
- scan again as a document (noting that its different)
- rescan as positive and low and behold its different (not much, but enough to obviate any obsessive compulsive type adjustment)

and if you are really after accuracy, don't move your scanner after calibration.

Joe Lipka · Feb 18, 2010

Dan- it was 4 ply mat board and black. I didn't tape the negatives to the mat board to keep the negative parallel to the scanner, but relied on the light source to keep the negative securely on the scanner.

You can see the results on my web site. The portfolio is "Presence of the Past."

Sully75 · Mar 4, 2010

Is there an inexpensive-ish source for anti-newton glass? Is that something I can get locally (Boston)?

sanking · Mar 4, 2010

Curt said:
I installed the software last night and got the scanner up and running. I scanned two 4x5 negatives in the Epson holder and the results were excellent. I received a reply from Betterscanning that said they don't specifically have holder for 5x7. Their method is to get a holder that's 8x10 with glass and to tape the negative to the bottom of the AN glass and use a mask, which I would have to cut, from their material to cover the negative to suit my needs. I wonder if the negative will sag even though they said to use 3M Magic tape and stretch it the best you can. The glass is above the negative so the glass acts as a heat protector.

The scanner is very nice and is easy to use. Maybe what's needed is a tiny vacuum frame.

Curt

Curt,

If you tape the negative at the sides and stretch it when you tape there will be virtually no sag.

Another option is to fluid mount the negative to the bottom of the AN glass, base of the negative to the clear side of the glass, with the AN side up. Then tape the negative at the sides. The blue masking tape available any most hardware stores works fine for taping as it leaves very little residue and holds well.

Assuming you test to establish the plane of best focus for the negative there will be some improvement in fluid mounting over other forms of dry mounting. The improvement will be primarily in an increase in micro-contrast, and in a file that will need less clean-up. Whether the improvement is worth the extra effort only you can decide.

Sandy King

maderik · Mar 10, 2010

sully75 said:
Is there an inexpensive-ish source for anti-newton glass? Is that something I can get locally (Boston)?

Some use simple anti-reflective glass from a frame shop. If you want to be sure to get optical grade glass then use the AN glass from an enlarger negative carrier (e.g. either buy a used carrier for the glass or order the replacement glass.) I use the latter: the 4x5 replacement AN glass from an Omega enlarger as I only have a v500. It's really good for scanning odd sizes like 127, 828, and 35mm with sprocket holes.

Stephanie Brim · Mar 11, 2010

I'm going to have to figure this out, too. The mat board sounds like the best option for me since I'm on a budget (aren't I always :rolleyes and Betterscanning really doesn't have a ready-made solution for 5x7.

I'm thinking that scanning on the glass will work for me for a while, though.

Theoretically, you could scan 2-up 5x7 or 4-up 4x5, right? Because that's what I'm looking forward to.

donbga · Mar 11, 2010

Stephanie Brim said:
and Betterscanning really doesn't have a ready-made solution for 5x7.

What scanner are you using?

Don Bryant

Stephanie Brim · Mar 12, 2010

I'll be using the 4990. I'm waiting on one to replace my ancient, yet reliable 2450.

Or, well, I think. If I can't find one that isn't in freaking Canada by the end of next week, I think I'm just going to bite the bullet and buy a V700.

donbga · Mar 12, 2010

Stephanie Brim said:
I'll be using the 4990. I'm waiting on one to replace my ancient, yet reliable 2450.

Or, well, I think. If I can't find one that isn't in freaking Canada by the end of next week, I think I'm just going to bite the bullet and buy a V700.

Well if you can find one, the 4990 will perform just as good as the 700.

In either case I strongly recommend this holder from better scanning for 5x7 film:

http://www.betterscanning.com/scanning/mstation.html

Don

sanking · Mar 12, 2010

Don Bryant said:
Well if you can find one, the 4990 will perform just as good as the 700.

In either case I strongly recommend this holder from better scanning for 5x7 film:

http://www.betterscanning.com/scanning/mstation.html

Don

Don,

I also recommend the scanner from Betterscanning, and for what it is worth, it is very easy to use with 5X7 negatives and is a very straight forward solution in my opinion.

I don't agree that the 4990 is as good as the V700. I have owned and tested both models and in my tests the maximum effective resolution of the 4990 was about 1800 spi, the V700 gets up to about 2300 spi. The difference between the two is in the use of the higher resolution lens, which requires scanning with film holder selected. If you scan with film area guide the two scanners perform about the same.

Sandy

5x7 negative scanning

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