#5's have arrived ! Shutter Release Q

SteveH · Oct 25, 2006

All,
I received my #5 shutters and lenses in the mail yesterday. First to brag a bit, they're HUGE ! One came with a Wollie adjustable SF lens (Betax #5), and the other came with some sort of really large 1:1 copy lens (Alphax #5 Shutter). This lens is about, 9" tall, and weights in at over 5lbs....I'll get some photos of everything tonight
My question is this - anyone out there know where a cable release for these things can be found ? I was thinking of machining an adaptor to screw into the housing so that a regular sized release would work...Anyone tried that with any success ?
The alphax seems to be in good, some what accurate shape. The betax however fires at the same speed, regardless of what setting it is at (B and T do work however). So I suppose both will make their way out to a CLA. Also, the threads on the adjustable portion of the soft focus lens is TIGHT past #2 setting - any suggestions on a lubricant to use ? I was thinking that graphite might be a good idea; but then again Im not sure about it maybe getting in between the elements....So maybe a TINY amount of grease ?

Terence · Oct 25, 2006

No clue on the releases, but regarding lubrication, a CLA should take care of it. Speaking from experience DON'T try to lube a lens part yourself, at least until the thing has been taken apart and cleaned. You'll just add to whatever is making it tight, make the condition worse, and make the CLA harder. Ask me how I know . . .

When/if you do lube anything, a VERY small amount of dry, graphite-based lube seems to work best for me. Less is more. If a small amount doesn't work, a large amount won't work either. The parts should move relatively freely, with a slight amount of resistance to hold the setting.

TheFlyingCamera · Oct 25, 2006

For a lubricant, when everything is disassembled (and I mean EVERYTHING), a very minimal amount of spray silicon lube works nicely as well. It's easier to get a thin even coat of the stuff than the dry graphite. When in doubt, hit a clean shop rag with a quick spot of the stuff, and wipe the surface to be lubricated.

As to cable releases, I'm not sure if you'll need an adaptor or not. You will for sure need a long-throw cable release. Try to find some of the Konica-Minolta cable releases - they work fine on my Ilex #5 shutters. You may also be able to just use an air release like for a Packard shutter to trip the Betax. Get a squeeze bulb and some rubber tubing for a couple of bucks and try it out.

SteveH · Oct 25, 2006

Thanks Guys. I'm going to look into it more and see what's going on with the bezel

Jim Noel · Oct 25, 2006

These shutters do need a long throw of 1" or more.

Some of the older shutters require a straight rather than tapered thread. These are hard to find with long throws. Your best bet is old camera stores pr photo swap meets.
Jim

SteveH · Oct 25, 2006

Photos as promised:

SteveH · Oct 25, 2006

I forgot to ask, is anyone familiar with the newer lens ? Like I said earlier, I think it might be able to be used as a convertible, but Im not quite sure...

Jon Shiu · Oct 25, 2006

I have the same 12 in. Wollensak Velostigmat II in Betax #5 and mine works fine with a regular cable release. As for the front element, you should be able to unscrew it completely off, but maybe it is a bit corroded, or dented.

Jon

TheFlyingCamera · Oct 25, 2006

SteveH said:
I forgot to ask, is anyone familiar with the newer lens ? Like I said earlier, I think it might be able to be used as a convertible, but Im not quite sure...

Steve- I'd be willing to TRY the copying lens converted, but I wouldn't shoot anything important with it. The front/rear elements are too disparate in size to work well converted I think. You'd have better luck with the Wolly Soft Focus lens. BTW, if you're modestly handy, you can try doing a complete CLA on the Betax shutter yourself. It is NOT precision machinery, and they're pretty easy to disassemble and service. If you can pop the puppy open, you can give it a good soak in a de-greaser like Braklene. Put the assembly back together and give it a really light hit with a silicone spray lubricant, let it dry (you may need to work the mechanism a bunch to get the lubricant penetrated evenly) and it should be back in order and working just fine.

John Koehrer · Oct 25, 2006

I wouldn't get dry graphite in the same room with a lens needing lube.
You could try using a little lighter fluid to loosen the old grease. In some cases I've even used penetrating oil, but it's almost as bad as graphite in that it goes everywhere.
For grease you can use lubriplate or even a teflon lube from radio snack called lube gel. Keep in mind a little bitgoes a looong way.
Horseman made a relly good CR with about 7/8" throw. heavy duty & $$$

SteveH · Oct 26, 2006

Thanks again...
So, let me get this right, the front element (the one with the numbers on it for amount of softness) should unscrew completely ?
Im quite mechanically inclined; however Im not sure that my shutter just needs a cleaning (The Betax that is), as it fires off at the same speed, no matter what the setting....

TheFlyingCamera · Oct 26, 2006

Steve - yes, it should. There may be a retaining pin that keeps it from coming completely unscrewed casually. There should be a way to remove the entire front element assembly from the shutter. Once you have that done, you should be able to figure out how to separate the front cell set that rotates to set the soft-focus function.

Yes, a clean and lube might very well be all it takes to restore your shutter speeds. Underneath the faceplate that has the shutter speed markings on it is a ring that rotates. Punched into that ring is a slot which expands/narrows depending on which way you turn the ring. This serves as a cam to guide the shutter timing mechanism that opens/closes the shutter.

The length of a shutter being open is determined by the travel distance of the return mechanism. The cam created by the slot in the dial shortens or lengthens the travel distance for the return spring, so the longer the travel, the longer the shutter stays open. The shorter, the less time it stays open.

If the gearset that drives the open/close is gummed up, it may never return to the fully open position. A good rinse with Braklene or other cleaning fluid will remove the old gummed up lubricant and let the gearset turn freely again. It's hard to explain without being able to show you the parts.

SteveH · Oct 26, 2006

Gotcha. Thanks again Scott. I was able to remove the lens from the shutter easily, so perhaps this evening I'll mess with the front element a bit. Worse comes to worse, I'm happy with where its at; the last thing I would want to do is break the glass.
I suppose there'd be no harm in cleaning the shutter and see what I can do with it. If not, there's always Carol

Ian Grant · Oct 27, 2006

A few weeks ago I bought a 2nd 10x8 camera, it came with a Wollensak Raptor in a Betax shutter. I fitted it on my camera and the lens fell off its board, and the front plate of the shutter fell off. Then I spotted how many hole there were on the lens board - it must have happened many time, wrong type of screws had been used its now rock solid.

The shutter wouldn't work, it was greasy, I cleaned it with methylated spirits, alcohol, slowly and carefully and after quite a few cleaning cycles it began to work, now its working perfectly.

You need a good strong cable release with these shutters their built like tanks and brute force is needed to cock and release them.

Ian

SteveH · Nov 1, 2006

Hrmm....I've been looking for the past week or so, but have thus far come up empty. Any suggestions on where to look ?

Thanks !

TheFlyingCamera · Nov 1, 2006

SteveH said:
Hrmm....I've been looking for the past week or so, but have thus far come up empty. Any suggestions on where to look ?

Thanks !

Looking where for what? How to open up that soft focus element bit? I'd have to take a look at it to see. I can also ask my shutter repair person about it and see if she knows.

SteveH · Nov 1, 2006

Sorry Scott, should have been more clear...
My question was where to look to find these old shutter releases. If the answer about removing the front elemet comes to you, then I'd be happy to hear about that as well.
I haven't gotten a chance to really look at it yet, but from what I recall, there has to be a pin in there (as you stated earlier), because I remember it stopping dead-on at the '5' mark.
Tonight for sure, I'll take a look.

Thanks Scott.

Jon Shiu · Nov 1, 2006

SteveH said:
Sorry Scott, should have been more clear...
My question was where to look to find these old shutter releases. If the answer about removing the front elemet comes to you, then I'd be happy to hear about that as well.
I haven't gotten a chance to really look at it yet, but from what I recall, there has to be a pin in there (as you stated earlier), because I remember it stopping dead-on at the '5' mark.
Tonight for sure, I'll take a look.

Thanks Scott.

Hi, my Betax no. 5 works fine with those cheap plastic cable releases. I got mine from freestyle. They tend to separate but can be glued. If your shutter doesn't trip with a regular cable realease maybe the shutter needs some cleaning or an "adjustment" (bending.)

The front element on mine just screws off all the way.

Jon

Steve Hamley · Nov 1, 2006

call Jim at MPEX. Many new "long throw" releases will work, like some models of the Gepe brand.

Steve

TheFlyingCamera · Nov 1, 2006

SteveH said:
Sorry Scott, should have been more clear...
My question was where to look to find these old shutter releases. If the answer about removing the front elemet comes to you, then I'd be happy to hear about that as well.
I haven't gotten a chance to really look at it yet, but from what I recall, there has to be a pin in there (as you stated earlier), because I remember it stopping dead-on at the '5' mark.
Tonight for sure, I'll take a look.

Thanks Scott.

For the really old-fashioned ones that screw onto the outside of the Betax socket, you'll need to scour swap meets and Ebay. For a modern long-throw release, many folks swear by the Gepe releases, and I am partial to the Konica/Minolta releases. I believe B&H still has the K/M releases.

SteveH · Nov 1, 2006

Ok, I'll see what I can come up with....

Thanks again,

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