5D2 or 6D?

Cholentpot · Feb 3, 2018

Here goes.

I've been primarily shooting film over the past 3-4 years but lately I've been getting asked to shlep out my DSLR for money. I'm using a Rebel T2i with a 50 1.8, 10-18 and an 18-55. It's time for an upgrade though. The control layout is limiting, I don't like the crop and the lowlight performance is not very good.

Now, I have a 35-135 USM lens that'll get my by initially on an upgrade until I raise funds for a better lens. I've taken it down to these two cameras. I'm more or less set on the 6D but I'd like to hear from people who've used both in the real world.

I know the old 'Lenses before bodies' argument but after shooting 35mm and 120 for a while the crop is just uncomfortable and the viewfinder just doesn't cut it. Also, maxing out at 800 ISO is just annoying. I can do better than that with film.

What'ca think folks?

flatulent1 · Feb 3, 2018

I use a 6D, upgraded a few years ago from the original 5D. The 6D is an excellent camera. I've heard that it often served as wedding photographers backup camera, based on the hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth that occurred when the 6D2 was released without a second card slot. The 5D2 is, by all accounts, an underwhelming camera by modern standards.

You'll be happy with the 6D, believe me.

Cholentpot · Feb 4, 2018

flatulent1 said:
I use a 6D, upgraded a few years ago from the original 5D. The 6D is an excellent camera. I've heard that it often served as wedding photographers backup camera, based on the hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth that occurred when the 6D2 was released without a second card slot. The 5D2 is, by all accounts, an underwhelming camera by modern standards.

You'll be happy with the 6D, believe me.

Thanks for the confirmation. How far can you push the ISO on it? The T2i looks fine until 800. 1600 is really really for emergencies and anything higher is B&W territory. I've also heard moaning about the focus on the 6D. Can't be worse than the Rebel though.

flatulent1 · Feb 4, 2018

Well, I'm a fairly conservative shooter, I don't go above 6400, and I don't pixel-peep. So I can't really say.

The AF is kind of behind the times, but as I'm from the old school I use the center point only and use the focus and recompose method. Nothing like finding after the fact that the camera focused on the wrong object. But then I still shoot on olde manual focus film cameras.

My style of shooting isn't by any means universal; what works for me may not work for others. The 6D is no speed demon, but it's a very capable camera. Image quality is excellent .

Oren Grad · Feb 4, 2018

I've owned both the 5DII and the 6D, though not at the same time. I still have the 6D. I've used it extensively with the 40mm pancake and the 16-35/4 L, just a bit with other lenses. I never quite bonded with the 5DII, for reasons I can't entirely reconstruct in distant hindsight, while the 6D became my comfortable-old-shoe DSLR, especially with the 40.

I've used the 6D regularly up to ISO 3200 for monochrome OOC jpgs and raw conversions to monochrome. Sure, I've worked many files from it in color too; there isn't any camera I'm comfortable with for color up that high. But that's my taste, and I have all sorts of hangups with digital color anyway, so I'm not necessarily a good guide for those whose perception isn't warped in that way. As I'm sure you've read all over the web, at base ISO the sensor doesn't have anywhere near the DR of competing models with Sony sensors, or compared with the latest 5DIV. It's true. But I've used the camera primarily hand-held, at ISO 400 and above; at high ISO - say, 800 or above - the 6D gives up very little if anything compared to other cameras. So in that sense one can think of it as a relatively economical full frame camera optimized for higher ISO. And compared to my 18MP APS-C Canons - 60D, SL1, M - the 6D files are far more robust beyond ISO 400.

I use only the center AF point; that one works well even in very low light. It's actually a great strength of the camera compared to other entry-level full-frame DSLRs. But I don't shoot sports or other fast-changing stuff where one might need the fancier auto-song-and-dance AF systems of the latest 5D and 1Dx cameras.

The sound and feel of the shutter/mirror action are also more refined and less obtrusive compared to earlier EOS full frame cameras, and there's a quiet mode that's even less obtrusive.

Whatever you end up with: good luck, and enjoy!

PS: You didn't ask, but FWIW the 40 is outstanding value for money, and a fine lens even not considering the price. It's also so small, it makes the 6D both easier to pack and carry and much less intimidating for subjects than with a big honker of a zoom mounted. (Yes, I know the 35-135 USM is relatively non-honker-ish as zooms go...)

Cholentpot · Feb 4, 2018

flatulent1 said:
Well, I'm a fairly conservative shooter, I don't go above 6400, and I don't pixel-peep. So I can't really say.

The AF is kind of behind the times, but as I'm from the old school I use the center point only and use the focus and recompose method. Nothing like finding after the fact that the camera focused on the wrong object. But then I still shoot on olde manual focus film cameras.

My style of shooting isn't by any means universal; what works for me may not work for others. The 6D is no speed demon, but it's a very capable camera. Image quality is excellent .

I shoot the vast majority on Ye Olde Manule Cameras. I even shoot on some scale focus cameras so I'm not overly overly dependent on autofocus if push comes to shove.

Oren Grad said:
I've owned both the 5DII and the 6D, though not at the same time. I still have the 6D. I've used it extensively with the 40mm pancake and the 16-35/4 L, just a bit with other lenses. I never quite bonded with the 5DII, for reasons I can't entirely reconstruct in distant hindsight, while the 6D became my comfortable-old-shoe DSLR, especially with the 40.

I've used the 6D regularly up to ISO 3200 for monochrome OOC jpgs and raw conversions to monochrome. Sure, I've worked many files from it in color too; there isn't any camera I'm comfortable with for color up that high. But that's my taste, and I have all sorts of hangups with digital color anyway, so I'm not necessarily a good guide for those whose perception isn't warped in that way. As I'm sure you've read all over the web, at base ISO the sensor doesn't have anywhere near the DR of competing models with Sony sensors, or compared with the latest 5DIV. It's true. But I've used the camera primarily hand-held, at ISO 400 and above; at high ISO - say, 800 or above - the 6D gives up very little if anything compared to other cameras. So in that sense one can think of it as a relatively economical full frame camera optimized for higher ISO. And compared to my 18MP APS-C Canons - 60D, SL1, M - the 6D files are far more robust beyond ISO 400.

I use only the center AF point; that one works well even in very low light. It's actually a great strength of the camera compared to other entry-level full-frame DSLRs. But I don't shoot sports or other fast-changing stuff where one might need the fancier auto-song-and-dance AF systems of the latest 5D and 1Dx cameras.

The sound and feel of the shutter/mirror action are also more refined and less obtrusive compared to earlier EOS full frame cameras, and there's a quiet mode that's even less obtrusive.

Whatever you end up with: good luck, and enjoy!

PS: You didn't ask, but FWIW the 40 is outstanding value for money, and a fine lens even not considering the price. It's also so small, it makes the 6D both easier to pack and carry and much less intimidating for subjects than with a big honker of a zoom mounted. (Yes, I know the 35-135 USM is relatively non-honker-ish as zooms go...)

Think that 35-135 will cut the mustard until I can get a 24-70 2.8 or something of the kind? I know it does not pair well with my crop but works excellent with my EOS A2. I'm also not adverse to throwing some Nikon, Pentax or Olympus glass onto the 'ol rebel. Can I safely do this with a FF? Also, any of you good folk install magic lantern on one of these cameras? I use it on my T2i and it's a game changer.

P.s. I've not warmed yet to a 40. I dunno, the focal length just doesn't it for me.

Chan Tran · Feb 4, 2018

Given the 2 choices I chose the 5D2.

Cholentpot · Feb 4, 2018

Chan Tran said:
Given the 2 choices I chose the 5D2.

Any reason or just a feeling?

Chan Tran · Feb 4, 2018

Cholentpot said:
Any reason or just a feeling?

Checking the specs and they are very similar. My tendency is to go for an older but higher end camera rather than a lower end camera but newer.

Cholentpot · Feb 4, 2018

Chan Tran said:
Checking the specs and they are very similar. My tendency is to go for an older but higher end camera rather than a lower end camera but newer.

Hear that.

Have you used either? With DSLRs I tend to try to get the newest I can afford, being it'll have a lower shutter count and longer support.

Ko.Fe. · Feb 4, 2018

Google P.O.T.N. You'll find many threads 5DMII vs 6D.

5DMKII is nowhere near to 6D high ISO range. I owned 5DMKII after letting old 5D go and MKII was next to lemon after 5D. Crappy AF, muted colors. Never bothered to spend money for 6D. Still too bulky for me. I prefer 500D with flash for low light and AF.

But my daughter is using another (refurb) 5DMKII with L zoom lens IS and 400 series flash for her professional work. It was affordable and it works for her.

Cholentpot · Feb 4, 2018

Ko.Fe. said:
Google P.O.T.N. You'll find many threads 5DMII vs 6D.

5DMKII is nowhere near to 6D high ISO range. I owned 5DMKII after letting old 5D go and MKII was next to lemon after 5D. Crappy AF, muted colors. Never bothered to spend money for 6D. Still too bulky for me. I prefer 500D with flash for low light and AF.

But my daughter is using another (refurb) 5DMKII with L zoom lens IS and 400 series flash for her professional work. It was affordable and it works for her.

I posted here because I trust the (former) APUG user base opinions.

You're not much of a fan of Canon colors I take it?

Oren Grad · Feb 4, 2018

Cholentpot said:
Think that 35-135 will cut the mustard until I can get a 24-70 2.8 or something of the kind? I know it does not pair well with my crop but works excellent with my EOS A2.

Haven't used it, I'm afraid. As a general observation, I'm finding that for critical use on newer full frame DSLRs, older Canon EF glass has been a mixed bag.

Cholentpot said:
I'm also not adverse to throwing some Nikon, Pentax or Olympus glass onto the 'ol rebel. Can I safely do this with a FF?

Watch out, here be dragons! At least on the 5D series, there are many combinations that are not safe because of the mirror colliding with various hardware on the lenses. I suspect the 6D is the same. I haven't been motivated to bother with my old Pentax and Nikon glass because I know from experience that I am not able to manual-focus with adequate accuracy or precision on the fly, through the viewfinder, with DSLRs (magnified live view in tripod-mounted use is a different story). And the 6D will mercilessly reveal any errors. But as always, YMMV. A plus for both the 5DII and the 6D is that you can swap the standard focusing screen for the Eg-S type, which might help a bit with faster lenses.

Cholentpot said:
Also, any of you good folk install magic lantern on one of these cameras?

Sorry, haven't.

Cholentpot said:
P.s. I've not warmed yet to a 40. I dunno, the focal length just doesn't it for me.

Fair enough!

wiltw · Feb 4, 2018

As already pointed out, the 6D is far superior to the ancient 5DII for less noise at high ISO

plus the fact that the 5DII cannot get up to the high ISO of the 6D (25600 standard, 102800 expanded) ,
plus there is the fact that 6D will focus in low light the 5DII cannot even focus in.

Oren Grad said:
Watch out, here be dragons! At least on the 5D series, there are many combinations that are not safe because of the mirror colliding with various hardware on the lenses.

That is likely an overstated issue. I know that Canon puts mechanical stuff on the back end of EF-S lenses, but third party lens manufacturers do not! I have a Tokina 11-16mm lens (which is for sale) and I inspected it, and found NOTHING protruding back beyond the lens mount itself. I mounted it on a 5D body, set 11mm FL, and then successfully fired the camera with zero interference between the lens and the reflex mirror.

To the OP consideration of manual glass on a Canon dSLR, I have confirmed on several occasions over the past 13 years -- with 5 different models including with my Canon 7DII -- that there are stopped down metering errors that occur with manual focus lenses. So the best thing to do is meter with lens wide open, then adjust f/stop and shutter speed to settings for shooting. Otherwise there are metering errors, where the f/stop - shutter changes are NOT in step with each other through the aperture range!

RattyMouse · Feb 4, 2018

Cholentpot said:
I shoot the vast majority on Ye Olde Manule Cameras. I even shoot on some scale focus cameras so I'm not overly overly dependent on autofocus if push comes to shove.

Keep in mind that digital cameras have awful viewfinders for manual focus. Forget focusing using anything with a minimal DOF.

wiltw · Feb 4, 2018

RattyMouse said:
Keep in mind that digital cameras have awful viewfinders for manual focus. Forget focusing using anything with a minimal DOF.

While true that dSLR focusing screens are (from the factory) best with lenses f/2.8 and slower, many models of Canon dSLR do have more precise focusing screens available for improved manual focus precision with faster apertures.

Oren Grad · Feb 4, 2018

wiltw said:
That is likely an overstated issue.

There's ample documentation on the web of specific lenses that cannot be used safely on a 5D-series camera. There are many that cause trouble. The point is not that no lenses work, only that you can't assume anything. Unless there is documentation from a reliable source about the safety of a particular lens with the 6D, trial-and-error testing will be needed, with risk of damage to mirror and/or lens, if someone with a set of old lenses wants to figure out which ones will be safe. If someone is game for that kind of tinkering, that's fine.

RattyMouse · Feb 4, 2018

wiltw said:
While true that dSLR focusing screens are (from the factory) best with lenses f/2.8 and slower, many models of Canon dSLR do have more precise focusing screens available for improved manual focus precision with faster apertures.

My understanding is that Canon discontinued making their cameras with interchangeable screens. Check carefully with any specific model before purchasing.

Oren Grad · Feb 4, 2018

RattyMouse said:
My understanding is that Canon discontinued making their cameras with interchangeable screens. Check carefully with any specific model before purchasing.

Both of the cameras that the OP is considering - 5DII and 6D - have interchangeable screens and accept the Canon Eg-S "Super Precision Matte" screen.

RattyMouse · Feb 4, 2018

Oren Grad said:
Both of the cameras that the OP is considering - 5DII and 6D - have interchangeable screens and accept the Canon Eg-S "Super Precision Matte" screen.

Oh yes, those are older models. They can take the matte screens, but they still will not be as good as the older cameras that were made for manual focus. They will just be better than the god awful finders that exist in today's cameras.

Cholentpot · Feb 4, 2018

wiltw said:
As already pointed out, the 6D is far superior to the ancient 5DII for less noise at high ISO

plus the fact that the 5DII cannot get up to the high ISO of the 6D (25600 standard, 102800 expanded) ,

plus there is the fact that 6D will focus in low light the 5DII cannot even focus in.

That is likely an overstated issue. I know that Canon puts mechanical stuff on the back end of EF-S lenses, but third party lens manufacturers do not! I have a Tokina 11-16mm lens (which is for sale) and I inspected it, and found NOTHING protruding back beyond the lens mount itself. I mounted it on a 5D body, set 11mm FL, and then successfully fired the camera with zero interference between the lens and the reflex mirror.

To the OP consideration of manual glass on a Canon dSLR, I have confirmed on several occasions over the past 13 years -- with 5 different models including with my Canon 7DII -- that there are stopped down metering errors that occur with manual focus lenses. So the best thing to do is meter with lens wide open, then adjust f/stop and shutter speed to settings for shooting. Otherwise there are metering errors, where the f/stop - shutter changes are NOT in step with each other through the aperture range!

RattyMouse said:
Keep in mind that digital cameras have awful viewfinders for manual focus. Forget focusing using anything with a minimal DOF.

I've been using a Nikkor Pre AI 135 2.8 with my T2i and EOS A2 with no issues. I've learned to nail the focus one way or another even though my eyesight is not very good. Magic Lantern does help with focus peaking and whatnot.

Interchangeable screens are a nice addition. I'll have to look into that. My other research is showing that the 5D2 is showing it's age while the 6D has some miles left on it.

Ko.Fe. · Feb 4, 2018

Cholentpot said:
I posted here because I trust the (former) APUG user base opinions.

You're not much of a fan of Canon colors I take it?

Former APUG was strictly film based. It is like asking about car among horse riders.

I have no idea why you are taking it this way... Never had Nikon DSLRs. I'm using same Canon DSLR since 2008. And had 5D and 5DMKII.
Canon 5D has best colors and rendering I ever seen among DSLRs.
But here is two problems with colors.
First - is old USM lenses. And then old EF-S lenses. Like 18-55 IS. EF-S mount has now great version of this lens and I'm using 24 EF-S pancake.
With this newer EF-S lenses colors are fine. You not going to get colors this good with old USM lenses.
L, this is where colors are great and only better with modern Cosina Zeiss ZE lenses.
But they are MF, not AF.
And this is where APUG shows its age. Old film era folks talks about special focusing screens. It is outdated (cumbersome to install), limiting and not effective.
Instead, Canon DSLR supports AF point detection with Zeiss ZE lens mount and with special adapters for another lenses.
Once lens is in focus, you'll get AF point confirmation. And ZE allows to operate aperture normally.
Another outdated film talk about DSLR is how great old film manual lenses are. And they are not. They just clunky and too weak for digital sensors.

Cholentpot · Feb 4, 2018

Ko.Fe. said:
Former APUG was strictly film based. It is like asking about car among horse riders.

I have no idea why you are taking it this way... Never had Nikon DSLRs. I'm using same Canon DSLR since 2008. And had 5D and 5DMKII.
Canon 5D has best colors and rendering I ever seen among DSLRs.
But here is two problems with colors.
First - is old USM lenses. And then old EF-S lenses. Like 18-55 IS. EF-S mount has now great version of this lens and I'm using 24 EF-S pancake.
With this newer EF-S lenses colors are fine. You not going to get colors this good with old USM lenses.
L, this is where colors are great and only better with modern Cosina Zeiss ZE lenses.
But they are MF, not AF.
And this is where APUG shows its age. Old film era folks talks about special focusing screens. It is outdated (cumbersome to install), limiting and not effective.
Instead, Canon DSLR supports AF point detection with Zeiss ZE lens mount and with special adapters for another lenses.
Once lens is in focus, you'll get AF point confirmation. And ZE allows to operate aperture normally.
Another outdated film talk about DSLR is how great old film manual lenses are. And they are not. They just clunky and too weak for digital sensors.

More like talking about getting from point A to point B. Horses for courses but the one who's traveled most knows most.

Thanks for the info. When I shoot I'm taking into account that it's going to need a bit of post to get the colors correct. I've focused fine and dandy with a tiny APS-C camera and stock viewfinder with no confirmation chip. Question is, will the old USM lens get me by until I have enough funds to upgrade.

Ko.Fe. · Feb 4, 2018

Not going to be a problem at all. For example, and version of 50 1.8 is lovely on any 5D or 6D. I used nothing else but 50 1.8 II on 5D for months.

Ko.Fe. · Feb 4, 2018

Any not and

5D2 or 6D?

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