500c

Just a quick question: how reliable are the 500c bodies at this point? Say, one in Ex condition from KEH or other similar retailer. I'm looking at cheap ways to get into a MF setup and am leaning toward a Mamiya TLR, but I could spring a little more for the 500c and lens/back. I don't think I have any preference for SLR vs TLR and as I am a one or two lens kind of guy, either would work. I do like the simplicity of TLRs, but those Hasselblads are sexy.

Jmal

I've shot a mamiya C330S for 6 months now and I love it. I started work as a food photographer and found it lacking for studio work so moved up to an RZ kit. I'm going to be selling the C330 kit next week if your interested, the camera is almost mint.. Just a thought mind you, as almost any cam you pick will be excellent and relatively affordable now that people are dumping for digital.

If KEH says it is in excellent condition, it is in excellent condition. Even if they say it is in "Bargain" condition, it is in better shape than pretty much any re-seller in the business. Trust their ratings. I haven't bought any big gear from Koh's but they have a pretty solid reputation as well.

You can't argue taste... but to me, there's nothing sexier than a nice TLR any day.

Cheers,

rootberry said:

I've shot a mamiya C330S for 6 months now and I love it. I started work as a food photographer and found it lacking for studio work so moved up to an RZ kit. I'm going to be selling the C330 kit next week if your interested, the camera is almost mint.. Just a thought mind you, as almost any cam you pick will be excellent and relatively affordable now that people are dumping for digital.

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I look back fondly on my days spent with a Mamiya C330 but, despite owning the parallax correction device, I found the lack of an accurate view a bit frustrating in the end. So I moved up to a Mamiya RB67, which I enjoyed for many years.
In answer to the original question though, I'm still running three Hasselblad bodies, including an ancient 500EL/M, all of which are working fine despite long periods of non-use at times.

I second Toffle's thought. I've yet to be disappointed in anything from KEH. And although I've never returned anything, I hear they are easy to work with in that regard as well.

Dan

David Odess told me C's are every bit as good as a CM and he can make any C work as well as the CM if it's broke. You just have to decide if you want the ability to easily change screens. The C requires (unless your more mechanically inclined than I am) a technician to install different screens.

Mike

Hasselblads are great, so are C330's not to mention Rollei's and many, many others. I'd shop for a 500 C/M rather than a 500C, mostly because the 500 C's are pretty old now, and there is little price differential to get to a C/M.

Hasselblads are a relatively expensive way to get into MF, but the optics are wonderful, they are great to work with, and if one fits your budget, why not?

Lot's of folks prefer TLR's because they are quieter, you don't contend with your view finder blocked when the shutter trips, and as you acknowledged, they are much simpler.

I've used/owned Hasselblads, C330's, Rollei's, a few others.
Between Rollei and Hasselblad, I may get shot for saying this, but I think they are a bit of a toss-up. On the Rollei side, you get simplicity, more flexibility in viewing without a prism, fixed lenses, no interchangeable backs. On the Hasselblad, you get interchangeable lenses and backs, more complexity and a little less cost of you want a 2.8 Planar lens. On either, you must resort to close up filters, or extension tubes (Hasselblad) to focus closer than about 3 feet.

The great thing about the Mamiyas mentioned so far, is that they have a bellows and focus very closely. On the 330 you contend with parallax, but that's not a huge problem, it has correction built-in that will be fine for moderately close working. It's major downside, as a TLR is the size and weight. They are't quite as refined as the German cameras, but are reliable, and do what they need to do, which is give you excellent images.

Good candidates if you want to get in a bit cheaper are Rollei SLR's, Bronica's, German Folders, f 3.5 Rollei TLR's, and lots of others, that I'm sure will get a mention.

Barry

If you want to get into medium format cheaply, considering a 6x6 folding camera.

Keep in mind that almost any camera that you buy (from the 1970s or earlier) will benefit from a routine service.

i just bought a mamiya m645 1000s form keh for $200!

Also, I can present another view of KEH's rating system. All the lenses I have bought from them have been amazingly clean, even at bargain ratings. But, bargain grade bodies and backs can be quite banged up, so take bargain to actually MEAN bargain. I got a bargain RB kit from KEH 6-7 months ago that had a broken prism finder, broken mirror workings, and the back was totally on it's last legs. I'm not saying KEH is bad, because I think in general they are quite good. Bargain can mean what it says though, and if you live in Atlanta, never try to return something to them in person even if they tell you to. They can be quite rude once you're in the door =)

Thanks for all the advice. I am quite familiar with KEH and their ratings. I would say they are largely accurate, but not always. I recently bought an Ex condition body that had so much deteriorated foam gunk inside (behind the mirror) that I wondered if anyone even looked at it. It was just sticky and nasty and so close to the shutter that it concerned me. This was my only bad experience with equipment from them, so I hope it is just an anomaly. On the MF front, like every compulsive camera shopper, I have been looking at the options. The later model Rolleicords are looking pretty appealing right now. Any thoughts?

I had a C330 with the 65mm, 80mm, and 250mm lens, Paraminder, CdS Porroflex and I was not happy with it. The fiddle-factor was too high.

I traded it in for a Hasselblad 503 CX with the 50mm, 80mm, 150mm, 250mm CF lenses, and two backs and I am in Heaven.

I have been very happy with KEH. The one time the overated a polarizing filter, they took it back, paid for the return postage, send a much better than rated placement without my paying for the replacement shipping.

Steve

Mamaiya 645

I started looking at 645s and realized this might be a very cheap (relatively speaking) option for me. This is copied from a failed post on another forum, so if it seems a little awkward, that is the reason.

To answer a few questions: I use BW film primarily (TX and PX), print no larger than 11x14 paper, don't have a strong preference for aspect ratio (I like 6x6 a lot, but also like 645 as it is not as long and narow as 135), don't have any need for flash or AE/AF, and don't think the lack of interchangeable backs would be an issue for me.

I had a chance to handle a original M645 today and it felt very natural to me despite being in very bad shape. It had the prism finder and after minimal consideration, this is obviously more practical than a WLF for these cameras. So, the next question is which lenses to go with. I think I am leaning toward the 1000s for the body, but I don't know much about the lenses. It looks like the Sekor C or N are the most common non-af lenses. What is the difference. I know the N has more plastic in its construction. Is this a problem or are they solid lenses? They are certainly cheap. Also, how accurate/good are the metered prisms? Lastly, I notice that there are two different cranks on the various 1000s models. One old while the other looks rigid. Which one is newer and is one model preferrable. Thanks.

I would trust KEH to give you a great camera. I use a 500C and I love it. Mind you, it's only been mine for three months but in sub-zero weather it hasn't acted up on me even once.
I don't think you can categorically single out one camera to be better than another due to age, it has to do with how much it's been used. If you find a 500C in good condition - go for it is my opinion. The newer lenses are backwards compatible for the 500 series.
- Thomas

jmal said:

I started looking at 645s and realized this might be a very cheap (relatively speaking) option for me. This is copied from a failed post on another forum, so if it seems a little awkward, that is the reason.

To answer a few questions: I use BW film primarily (TX and PX), print no larger than 11x14 paper, don't have a strong preference for aspect ratio (I like 6x6 a lot, but also like 645 as it is not as long and narow as 135), don't have any need for flash or AE/AF, and don't think the lack of interchangeable backs would be an issue for me.

I had a chance to handle a original M645 today and it felt very natural to me despite being in very bad shape. It had the prism finder and after minimal consideration, this is obviously more practical than a WLF for these cameras. So, the next question is which lenses to go with. I think I am leaning toward the 1000s for the body, but I don't know much about the lenses. It looks like the Sekor C or N are the most common non-af lenses. What is the difference. I know the N has more plastic in its construction. Is this a problem or are they solid lenses? They are certainly cheap. Also, how accurate/good are the metered prisms? Lastly, I notice that there are two different cranks on the various 1000s models. One old while the other looks rigid. Which one is newer and is one model preferrable. Thanks.

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The N lenses are newer, may have different optical formations, and may have more modern coatings.

In some cases there are also S lenses.

In some cases, the C and the N are very similar. In others (e.g. the 45mm) they are quite different.

In my experience, all the Mamiya M645 lenses are built to a similar high standard, but I only have direct experience with 6 of them.

If I had a choice between C and N, I would prefer the N (due to its age) if the condition appeared similar, and the price difference wasn't unreasonable.

Matt