500 EL/M Loose lens - Newb ALERT!

discoani · Jan 18, 2018

Hello all, this is my first post here so be gentle! I recently inherited some old film cameras and i'm trying to decide if i want to keep them for myself or sell them. I got them from a family friend who recently passed away and i was given them because i'm a pro digital photographer and always wanted to experiment with film. I am 35, never used film cameras really but i have a lot of experience with digital SLR's. Received Hasselblad 500 EL/M, 503cx, 50mm & 80mm planar lens. 3 backs. Leica if.

Sorry i am such a newb, but i'm just trying to wrap my head around how these hasselblad's work.

PROBLEM: 500 EL/M has a 80mm planar lens stuck on and is very loose. For the first few days i couldn't get the 50mm or 80mm lens on the 500 EL/M but i could on the 503cx. I noticed that the screw on the 500 ELM was in a different position than the 503cx. I I couldn't get the lens on for a few days. Somehow this morning i got the lens on and right now its very loose and will not be removed. I have read some things online where i need to remove the camera back and i see a screw that is not too far from the back lens element and i can see this being problematic if i try to screw this while the lens is attached, because of slipping and damage the lens. I read that i can use blue sticky tac and put it against the lens to protect it while i do the screwing but i want to make sure that is my main problem before i go about this.

Also is there a way to tell if my power supply and or batteries work? It came with 2 blue old looking batteries and a charger, i'm guessing these have to be operating in order for the camera to work, correct? How can i test these batteries or know if they are good? can i use any other batteries without an adapter?

jeffreyg · Jan 18, 2018

I'm not familiar with the ELM but I have a 503CX and suggest you get an unjammer tool which should be available from B&H so as not to damage your cameras. My guess is that the ELM automatically cocks the shutter so the motor may be malfunctioning and preventing the proper installation of the lens. Remove the back and check the screw. It should have the slot in a horizontal position. The unjammer has two ends one small and one larger. In the 503 the screw inside the body is the smaller one. Whatever you do don't try to force anything. You could call Hasselblad in New Jersey and have them walk you through. They might also direct you about replacement batteries. If not check with David Odess an expert Hasselblad repair tech.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

shutterfinger · Jan 18, 2018

Get the instruction manuals for the cameras here: http://www.butkus.org/chinon/hasselblad.htm if you do not have them.

Sirius Glass · Jan 18, 2018

Do not remove the screw

Posts 2 and 3 give excellent advice.

Never put a lens on or take it off if the lens and the camera are not cocked! The directions in the posts tell you how to cock the lens when it is off the camera.

Hasselblads are designed to be kept in the cocked configuration when stored. The springs are designed for that. It helps prevent jamming problems.

Please feel free to ask questions. None of us was born with this knowledge.

Loading a 120mm film into a Hasselblad How to un-jam Hasselblad lens https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/6325347
How to unjam an Hasselblad http://www.dmin-dmax.fr/photoe2b.htm
How to change light seals in Hasselblad film magazines http://www.hasselbladhistorical.eu/HT/HTSeal.aspx

I own the Hasselblad 503 CX and the Hasselblad 903 SWC.

Welcome to ~~APUG~~ Photrio.

discoani · Jan 23, 2018

So i would need the unjammer tool to be used inside the camera body in order to let the lens slip in correctly? I will order one today.

Also is there any way that i can tell if the 2 batteries i have work? I tried having both of them in the battery compartment and having them charge with the included power cord but there is no light or way for me to know if they are charged or are holding a charge. How will i know the 500 EL/M is working? Should i also buy some kind of battery adapter for the camera?

Sirius Glass · Jan 23, 2018

If you cannot get the tool to work, do not force it. Take it to be repaired.

discoani · Jan 23, 2018

I havent purchased the tool yet. Trying to figure out if i need that or working batteries. Looks like a battery adapter runs around $30 while the tool costs $20, trying not to spend too much on this if i can, funds are tight now but will do what it takes to get this bad boy working.

bdial · Jan 23, 2018

According to David Odess, you shouldn't use the turning screw method on a motorized body; http://www.david-odess.com/faq.html#q18
In any case, that procedure is for getting a stuck lens off, and usually it's stuck because there is a malfunction. If your EL currently doesn't have a lens mounted, you need to get its power working first, once the body is cocked (by applying power), putting a lens on will not be a problem. Until the body is cocked, and you know it functions, there is no point in mounting a lens.

You can also get a manual from this site; http://www.hasselbladhistorical.eu along with lots of other information.

ic-racer · Jan 23, 2018

Nicad batteries go bad after a while. Sometimes after a short while. The Rollieflex E36 had a battery that was essentially two of the Hasselblad batteries stacked. The original type batteries didn't last very long.
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/rollei-e36re-excell-battery-12v-rebuild.68173/

shutterfinger · Jan 23, 2018

Looking at the instruction manuals for the 500 EL and 500ELX both show the same battery information. One battery charge time 14 hours, two batteries 28 hours. You can check the batteries with a volt meter and the fuse with an ohm meter usually listed as VOM for volt/ohm meter.

discoani · Jan 24, 2018

shutterfinger said:
Looking at the instruction manuals for the 500 EL and 500ELX both show the same battery information. One battery charge time 14 hours, two batteries 28 hours. You can check the batteries with a volt meter and the fuse with an ohm meter usually listed as VOM for volt/ohm meter.

I tested the fuses out, they seem to be working (i have 4 of them). As for the batteries, one read at .9 volts and the other read at around .0 volts. Shouldnt it be reading at .6 volts? I am pretty bummed, someone replied on another forum saying i should have the camera sent away to a specialist to remove the lens. I am hoping someone else can make a suggestion on how to get the lens off. I am guessing i should go ahead and buy the 9 volt battery adapter and possibly the unjammer tool.

Here are a few pictures to help explain the problem better.

John Koehrer · Jan 24, 2018

The battery will probably solve your problem but the unjamming tool won't help on the motor driven cameras. See post #8.
If you want to play with the lens off the camera it would cock the lens. I always used a quarter it was almost $10 less expensive.

bdial · Jan 24, 2018

Have you tried charging the batteries?
BTW, the unjammer tool is just a screwdriver, and it's not a tool I've needed in about 20 years of working with Hasselblads.

You say the lens is loose, how loose? If the mirror in the body was up, you shouldn't have been able to get the lens on without some force. As you were attempting to put the lens on, did you hear the shutter in the lens go off?

TheFlyingCamera · Jan 24, 2018

If you need the camera serviced, bring it to ProPhoto on Pennsylvania Avenue here in Washington DC. They can take care of that issue with your stuck lens without having to send the camera away for an extended period of time. They're not cheap, but if this is something they can fix on the spot, they MIGHT do it quickly and inexpensively. Even if it requires the camera to stay there, it will be a matter of a couple weeks to get it fixed. I have them service my Rolleiflex cameras (two 2.8E's and a Tele).

shutterfinger · Jan 24, 2018

Charge the batteries for the specified time then check the voltage on each. Their voltage should be stamped on the exterior of the battery.
The charger has 5 pins at the camera connector. One is common. You should read voltage between the common and at least 1 of the other pins. The charger output should be stated on the wall wart end.

johnielvis · Jan 24, 2018

from the pic, it looks like the lens cocking "screw head" in the lens isn't even lined up with the camera internal "screw driver".

seems to me that it's just maybe somehow a very tight fit--maybe a bent bayonet mount. so--us a little force and "untwist" the lens in the opposite direction you put it on an it should come off--standard dismount--it looks like nothing is holding it but bayonet flange friction--maybe just one bayonet leaf and the other 2 are loose--could be your problem all along...give it a good "untwist" impulse and she if she budges around and off it comes.

btaylor · Jan 24, 2018

Hi OP,
In post #11 you state that both your batteries are reading under 1 volt. That won't operate the camera AT ALL. I don't know what the voltage was for the original batteries, but I have a 9v adapter for mine and it works fine. .0 and .9 volts are going to get you nowhere. Buy the battery adapter, you're going to need it regardless.
One other thing, and I don't want to be a dick about it, but you are agonizing over spending $30 for a battery adapter and $20 for the unjam tool-- $50, for your HASSELBLAD! They are fine, complex machines that cost a TON of money when they were new (I could never afford one back then). A qualified technician is going to need to charge a fair price (certainly hundreds) to keep it running as it should. I am from a time when maintenance was required for fine machinery. Times have changed, but the maintenance of old machinery for it to operate correctly has not.

bdial · Jan 24, 2018

johnielvis said:
from the pic, it looks like the lens cocking "screw head" in the lens isn't even lined up with the camera internal "screw driver".

seems to me that it's just maybe somehow a very tight fit--maybe a bent bayonet mount. so--us a little force and "untwist" the lens in the opposite direction you put it on an it should come off--standard dismount--it looks like nothing is holding it but bayonet flange friction--maybe just one bayonet leaf and the other 2 are loose--could be your problem all along...give it a good "untwist" impulse and she if she budges around and off it comes.

I was about to mention the same thing. I took a look at my EL and in your photo it looks like the winding key on the lens is well away from the body's coupling. You should be able to twist the lens counter-clockwise (as viewed from the front) while holding the lens release button to remove it.

When the body has power it should cycle, bring the mirror down and it should be good to go for mounting a lens. If the shutter in the lens tripped in all this (the shutter would be closed), turn the coupling in the lens in the direction of the arrow with a coin until it stops. If the shutter is tripped, do not attempt to mount the lens until the shutter is cocked. Pics and a discussion of this are in the manual from Butkus's site or Hasselbladhistorical.eu.
Since you have another body, just work with it until you get the power issues sorted out for the EL.

discoani · Jan 25, 2018

bdial said:
I was about to mention the same thing. I took a look at my EL and in your photo it looks like the winding key on the lens is well away from the body's coupling. You should be able to twist the lens counter-clockwise (as viewed from the front) while holding the lens release button to remove it.

When the body has power it should cycle, bring the mirror down and it should be good to go for mounting a lens. If the shutter in the lens tripped in all this (the shutter would be closed), turn the coupling in the lens in the direction of the arrow with a coin until it stops. If the shutter is tripped, do not attempt to mount the lens until the shutter is cocked. Pics and a discussion of this are in the manual from Butkus's site or Hasselbladhistorical.eu.
Since you have another body, just work with it until you get the power issues sorted out for the EL.

OMG thanks so much!!!!!!!!!! you saved me countless hundred's of dollars by not having to send it to a specialist!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was afraid to try to turn it too much and like you said, turning it counter clock wise with some force instantly removed it! Thanks again.

I guess it's time to buy some batteries. Still unsure if i need the tool. I did use a quarter on the lens element but i noticed there was no way to use a quarter for the body.

bdial · Jan 25, 2018

discoani said:
OMG thanks so much!!!!!!!!!! you saved me countless hundred's of dollars by not having to send it to a specialist!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was afraid to try to turn it too much and like you said, turning it counter clock wise with some force instantly removed it! Thanks again.

I guess it's time to buy some batteries. Still unsure if i need the tool. I did use a quarter on the lens element but i noticed there was no way to use a quarter for the body.

You're welcome.
regarding the tool, as I said earlier, I've never needed one in 20 or so years working with Hasselblads, so, IMHO, you don't need it, and you wouldn't want to use it on an EL body anyway. Beyond that, the magic tool is just a variation of a slotted screwdriver, which will work as well.
Sometimes the shutter in the lens will get released due to handling while the lens is off, in that case, a coin is all that's needed to wind the shutter. The little pin to the right of the winding shaft on the lens is what releases the shutter.

The simple rule is don't ever try to mount a lens that doesn't have the shutter cocked and open, similarly, don't try to mount a lens on a body that isn't wound (mirror down, rear shutters closed). Most manual bodies have an indicator on the right side near the back that shows white if it's wound and red if it's released (mirror up, rear shutters open). If you're using extension tubes, mount the tubes first, then the lens, and remove in the opposite order.

There is a lot of internet lore about the propensity of Hasselblads to jamb, IME, and that of others here, it doesn't happen nearly as often as the internet claims. Yes, it can and does happen, generally it's an infrequent issue if you're careful and follow the instructions in the manual.
What the tool does is allow you to wind the lens's shutter, so that the coupling between the body and the lens is in the correct position to remove the lens.

discoani · Jan 25, 2018

So for the lens to have the shutter cocked, i need to be able to see through the lens correct? Like right now i can not see through the lens, there is a shutter closed. Thanks again for the info, i am slowly learning how to use these monsters and might be able to take some photos soon!

E. von Hoegh · Jan 25, 2018

When all else fails, read the instructions. http://www.butkus.org/chinon/hasselblad.htm

bdial · Jan 25, 2018

Correct, the lens has a more or less conventional leaf shutter, and it must be open for mounting (or removing) the lens.
There is an auxiliary shutter in the body, behind the mirror, but it's only there to keep extraneous light from the film.

You can manually wind the lens shutter using a coin in the slot of the coupling at the rear of the lens, turn it in the direction of the arrow until it locks.
If it won't lock, the lens needs to be serviced.
As @E. von Hoegh implies, it's all covered in the manual, along with lots of other operational details that are good to understand before using the camera.

GarageBoy · Jan 25, 2018

Buy the AA battery adapter on eBay and forget the nicds

discoani · Jan 25, 2018

I just bought the 9volt battery adpter, is there any reason i should cancel and buy the AA one instead? i paid $30 on bhphotovideo

500 EL/M Loose lens - Newb ALERT!

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