4x5 TMax, Pyrocat HD, trays and some questions

Matus Kalisky · Aug 1, 2007

Hi all.

My Pyrocat HD in glycol just arrived from PhotoFormulary and after I read the instructions I ralized that I actually need very littel developer per sheet. For the standard 1:1:100 solution only 75ml is required (though for tube developement) for 4x5 film. I will be using trays.
As I plan to go with only 1 film at a time (at least for the beginning) I would like to use only as little as possible - I gues some 200 ml could be enough If I manage to find trays small enough.
The problem is - to make 200 ml of 1:1:100 solution I need only 2ml of A and B. I guess I will have to get something like pipettes (2 of course) to ba bale to measure such a small quantities.
Do you find this possible :confused:

Sme questions concernng the Working solution:
- once the working solution is mixed - does it has to be used IMMADIATELY or it may wait some 10 - 15 minutes (I guess not) ?
- is the order during the mixing of the solution important - like water->A->B or water->B->A ?

bottom line:
I will be developing TMAX 400 with normal agitationexposed at EI 200 and 400.

Tom Hoskinson · Aug 1, 2007

My mixing sequence is water plus A, plus B.

I usually make either 500ml or a liter of working solution so I measure A and B with a graduated cylinder.

For less than 500ml working solution I use pipettes to measure the A and B.

Donald Miller · Aug 1, 2007

Pyrocat is so inexpensive it is best to try not to be overly economical. The outcome of scrimping on developer can be improper or inconsistant development of your more expensive negatives.

One of the highly possible problems that you can realize is the problem of surge marks or increased edge density on the negative if you use overly small trays. I used 8X10 trays for 4X5 film when I tray developed.

I would determine the proper EI for that film with your equipment. That means using one EI and departing from that only when the inherent scene contrast varies sufficiently to warrant differing development times. Usually the variance is not on the order of a full stop.

My mixing is on the same order as Tom's.

w35773 · Aug 2, 2007

I make up 120 ml batches of pyrocat for tube development of 4x5 sheets (60ml per sheet, 2 sheets per batch) and use small medicine syringes (like for kid's cough medicine) to measure small (1.2 ml) quantities. I have one for A and a different one for B.

I mix in the same order as Tom.

Hope this helps,
Russell

Matus Kalisky · Aug 2, 2007

Thank you.

Yes - I would not call Pyrocat necessarily expensive at $30 for 50 liters of 1:1:100 solution, but I payed $35 on top of that for shipping ...

I also ralized that much easier to use would be syringe instead of pipette. Also safer.

How small tray would be too small ?

One more question remains - how is the "longevity" of mixed working solution?

jgjbowen · Aug 2, 2007

slnce-z-gsi said:
One more question remains - how is the "longevity" of mixed working solution?

I always mix my Pyrocat HD just prior to use. I use it one shot and discard it. I'm pretty sure that is what Sandy King recommends. The "longevity" of the mixed solution is not very good. For the cost, I wouldn't risk my negatives by trying to do a second run, nor would I mix it a couple hours before I intended to use it.

I use my Pyrocat HD 2:2:100 for Tmax negatives.

Ian Grant · Aug 2, 2007

Matus, for tray processing of LF films its probably better to use Pyrocat HD at 2:2:100 as this gives shorter processing times.

I process my Tmax100 5x4 in a Jobo tank at 1:1:100 as time is less of an issue, but when working in the dark with trays shorter developing times are preferable.

Ian

Matus Kalisky · Aug 2, 2007

- jgjbowen - & - Ian -

what are your developement times/agitation etc. then ?

And one more question - is Ilford Hypam (Rapid Fixer) suitable for fixing negatives developed in Pyrocat HD ???

Thanks

Ian Grant · Aug 2, 2007

Matus, I don't use Tmax100 in 10x8, I only use Forte 100 and EFKE 25 at the moment with tray development, but my times are typically between 6 - 9 minutes.

Agitation is continuous for the first 30 seconds then I rock the tray every 30 seconds a couple of times.

Ian

Tom Hoskinson · Aug 5, 2007

Hypam fixer and Pyrocat

slnce-z-gsi said:
- jgjbowen - & - Ian -

what are your developement times/agitation etc. then ?

And one more question - is Ilford Hypam (Rapid Fixer) suitable for fixing negatives developed in Pyrocat HD ???

Thanks

Yes, Hypam's pH is slightly on the acid side, but I've not seen any decrease in the Pyrocat stain density after fixing with Hypam.

Also see: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Thomas Bertilsson · Aug 6, 2007

Matus, for developing times - I think it's time for a film test. Times will vary from user to user depending on how the film is exposed, and how you agitate your film while developing it.
You can do it with just a few sheets, and it's easy. It helps you find a suitable film speed too. I would expose two sheets while metering in the shadow areas with a one stop bracket between the two sheets. Develop them for an arbitrary time in 1+1+100 with constant agitation, say eight minutes. Then stop and fix them, judge which has best shadow density. One ought to be close to perfect or check your meter (or metering technique) and adjust until you have a negative with good shadow density. This is all you care about now.
Next you want to see how the highlight density is. Expose two more sheets according to the exposure index you determined by judging shadow density. Develop one of them. Judge whether you have too much highlight density or too little. Unless you hit it bulls eye perfect right away, develop the other sheet for a longer or shorter time depending on how the first one looked.
Four sheets in the best case scenario, six at the worst. It's worth the effort, trust me.
- Thomas

Matus Kalisky · Aug 6, 2007

- Thomas -

Yes - I think I will go that way. If I understood well - the first two sheets should help me to get approximately the film speed and with the second two (4) sheets I should get the developing time.

Do you mean by continuous agitation - agitation once or twice per minute?

Do you tking that the developement times and EI obtained in such a way wich sheet film intrays can be applied on the 120 roll film in a jobo drum as well or should I better run same test there as well?

thanks

4x5 TMax, Pyrocat HD, trays and some questions

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