4x5 tank

palmettoexplorer · Jan 14, 2018

I am new to LF development, specifically 4x5. I am seeking out what is the best method to develop. Currently I have one of those Paterson tanks that holds two 35mm reels, or one 120 reel. Will this work for a couple sheets of 4x5 in the taco method? Or must I get a bigger Paterson tank, such as the one that hold three reels of 35/ two reels of 120.

Thanks for the help.

E. von Hoegh · Jan 14, 2018

If you can afford one, get the Nikor stainless steel tank, it's adjustable for all smaller sizes.

locutus · Jan 14, 2018

This seems a opinionated subject, FWIW i'm happy with a Patseron tank with a MOD54 insert.

peter k. · Jan 14, 2018

Yes.. to begin your effort with 4x5, this will work.. and get you started. That's how we got started in developing a few shots of 4x5.
If you have a 4x5 neg.. place it in the container, and then fill perhaps 1/2' above it, to get an estimate of how much developer you need.

Then check this out perhaps for the future.
Dead Link Removed

Works really well.. Here's a heads up for it on utube

Sirius Glass · Jan 14, 2018

I tried several tanks for developing 4"x5" film. The short version is that I found the Yankee tank was hard to agitate without the chemicals sloshing out. I did not try the taco method nor the MOD 45 because they did not exist at the time. Both may be wonderful but I do not know. I ended up with a more expensive solution that not only leads to great consistent results and allows me to develop black & white and color film as well as color prints. I now use a JOBO CPP2+ processor with a 1540 tank for 35mm and 120 film and the 3010 Expert Drum for up to 10 4"x5" sheets. I paid $150 use for the processor on APUG ==> now Photrio, not much for the used 1540 tank and reels, $300US for the 3010 drum, and both the used Jobo 1 liter bottles on APUG. As I said it was a more expensive approach starting up, but I am now saving money because I am not having processing problems when I develop color or black & white film.

WilmarcoImaging · Jan 14, 2018

I use a BTZS tube and like it. I have modified it by adding a rubber “no hub” extension with PVC plumbing threaded end cap. The modification allows full immersion of the film in chemicals, allowing the tube to rest vertically between inversions. Think of it as a mini-Paterson tank. I use 300ml of solution per tube, which is enough to overflow the tube+extension by around 10ml-20ml.

I don’t use the tube in the rolling orientation as they are advertised, because of multiple problems with streaks and uneven development. With the modification above the uneven development went away.

Mick Fagan · Jan 14, 2018

Firstly, welcome to the forum.

Developing 4x5” film is, as you are finding out, varied and interesting. I have developed 4x5” film via various methods, notably using a Jobo CPE2 rotary processor, which is good but expensive and not what you need at this stage of your 4x5” photography career. I have been using my Jobo to rotary process all of my film, including 4x5” for close to 30 years

I have seen and handled the MOD54 insert for the Paterson 3 reel tank, looked at the clip from the inventor(?). If you already had the correct Paterson tank, then I think that could be a reasonable way to go. It requires 1 litre of developing solution.

Then there is the SP-445 tank as shown in the clip in this thread. The actual film holders shown in the clip indicate that this is the first version of this unit. I have this same unit; I was part of the kickstarter group. I am more than pleased with it. It requires (in my case) 465ml of solution.

Later models have had their film holders modified, for possibly two reasons. One to enable one to remove the film more easily after developing, two to eliminate possible marking on the back of films.

I never had any issues with removing the film after developing, I simply place the loaded film holder onto a tray of water (I use an 8x10” paper tray) and the film virtually slides out of the holder by itself. As for marks on the rear of the film, I haven’t had any, I’ve put Foma, Ilford and Bergger films through my SP-445 unit with nary a scratch.

I do though, use a wetting agent bath at the end by using a 5x7” tray with the wetting solution in that and place each sheet in individually and then hang to dry.

After using my Jobo rotary processor for developing all of my films, colour and B&W for close to 30 years, 135, 120 and 4x5” sheet film. I continue to use it for 135, 120, but have switched to the SP-445 for 4x5” film since obtaining that unit.

It is really easy to use, able to be carried on trips for on location developing; which was my original reason for procuring this tank. It gives me a very fine and even development over the entire sheet of film; this is all I require of any developing tank.

Mick.

Todd Barlow · Jan 14, 2018

+1 for the MOD54 Insert.

mshchem · Jan 15, 2018

In the beginning all I had access to were Kodak 1/2 gallon hard rubber tanks and Kodak 4a 4x5 hangers. You work in total darkness, replenish your developer perfect.
I have used a Mod 54 works. Didn't wow me but it's an inexpensive effective method.
Nikor 4x5 tanks work great only use 1 qt of solution, if they are adjusted right loading is possible once you get the hang of it. A work of art.
Jobo 2904n reels, I use them, I like them, but one warning. I cheat I use IR googles, and the Jobo loader. Makes it a piece of cake. Very expensive! Unless like me you stumble on to used. New 1 reel and a small tank, for 6 sheets will set you back well over 100 bucks. The Jobo stuff really shines on a processor.
Jobo 3000 series expert drums, best easiest way to process sheet film at exactly the right temperature and agitation. I have 3 of them 3005, 3006, 3010 you really need a processor.

Now back to your original question. Three cheap solutions, 3 roll Paterson tank and mod 54, the SP-445, or open hard rubber tanks and hangers.
I would recommend the Paterson /Mod 54 outfit. But if you want to have fun in the dark get some tanks and hangers.

I would make up 2 liters of working solution D-76, and replenish after each batch. (I use XTOL, HC-110 Is easy too )
Best Regards Mike

mshchem · Jan 15, 2018

Mick Fagan said:
It is really easy to use, able to be carried on trips for on location developing; which was my original reason for procuring this tank. It gives me a very fine and even development over the entire sheet of film; this is all I require of any developing tank.

This is the true genius of the SP-445, in the absence of Polaroid you can even use these tanks to confirm lighting etc. And even though I have never used one they look very straightforward.
Best Mike

jacaquarie · Jan 15, 2018

The short answer, the SP445, is the way to go!!
Have tried other tanks, like the SP445 so much now have four.

SP445!

RalphLambrecht · Jan 15, 2018

palmettoexplorer said:
I am new to LF development, specifically 4x5. I am seeking out what is the best method to develop. Currently I have one of those Paterson tanks that holds two 35mm reels, or one 120 reel. Will this work for a couple sheets of 4x5 in the taco method? Or must I get a bigger Paterson tank, such as the one that hold three reels of 35/ two reels of 120.

Thanks for the help.

to me the Job tanks in rotation mode work the best for 4x5 and use the least amount of chemicals.

Konical · Jan 15, 2018

Good Morning, Palmettoexplorer,

I have processed thousands of 4 × 5 sheets (B & W) in a drum on a motor base; to me, that's the preferred method, since it minimizes chemical amounts and virtually eliminates any development unevenness. Unfortunately, the plastic spacer which slides down a separator spline recently cracked and rendered the drum impractical for processing multiple sheets of film; so far, I haven't come up with a suitable replacement or alternative. With this in mind, I purchased an SP-445 tank and have been using that for a while. I have found that the SP-445 is easy to use and produces excellent results. It uses a somewhat larger volume of solution than a drum, but that's a minor drawback.

Konical

grahamp · Jan 15, 2018

I started out using single sheet 'tanks' made from ABS plumbing pipe - http://dotinthelandscape.org/grahamp/develop.html - then moved on to a Jobo using 2509n reels which is my current practice. I also use the Jobo for 8x10 and 120, so it has made sense over the years.

If the SP-445 had been around, I would probably have gone that way. People just learn to use what they have/can get, or try several until they find one that suits them. Pretty much any method will work (with the possible exception of the Yankee tank ), witness the number of strongly held opinions!

tonyowen · Jan 15, 2018

I use a Jobo 2500 tank with a 2509(n) reel for 4x5 and 9x12 sheet film. The 2500 is also used with a 2502 reel for 35mm, 120 and 127 film. All five options are chosen by integral settings on the reel's spindle.
The Jobo 2500 uses a small amount of liquid (270ml) for the sheet film and is used on a manually rotated roller base.

regards
Tony

Neal · Jan 15, 2018

Dear palmettoexplorer,

If you don't have many sheets and are just trying things out, start with trays. It's not hard and you already own them.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

Luckless · Jan 15, 2018

For some clarity:

Mod45 will Not fit the 'Universal Tank' from Paterson. (The tank holding 2 reels for 135 film, or a single 120/220 width reel.) - You would require an upgrade to the "Multi-Reel 3 Tank", which can take two 120/220 width reels.

That said, the single 120 reel tank does allow you to 'fit' 4x5 sheet film inside if you put the sheets in with the short side vertical. However that has a few issues with it:
1 - It is VERY tight, and looking like it might have some issues with getting chemistry around to the backside of the film. (So double check you're putting them emulsion side in I guess?)
2 - You can squeeze two sheets in. There might be space to do more if you got fancy with a holder insert, but there isn't a lot of room to work with, and that might require a custom funnel. And at that point you are probably investing the retail cost of the larger Paterson and a Mod45 insert, or another system entirely.

For what it is worth, my collection currently consists of two Multi-Reel 3 Tanks, one Universal, three Paterson Reels, and a Mod45. So far it has served me well, and part of my reason for going with the Mod45 is because it kept my collection interchangeable with itself. Assuming I remember to include more reels in an order at some point, my tank collection would allow me to pre-load my tanks for up to 10 rolls of 120 film to develop back to back without having to stop, clean, dry, and reload reels.

rmann · Jan 15, 2018

A little self promotion, I have a Combi Plan 4x5 daylight tank listing for sale. Over the years it was my choice for small - up to 6 sheets - processing. Never had a problem with uneven negatives which can happen with other methods. My first choice for bigger batches was dip/dunk tanks with hangers and NIGHT VISION Goggles.

Sirius Glass · Jan 15, 2018

For the cost of night vision goggles one could have a 3010 Expert Drum and a Jobo processor plus be ahead by being able to process color film too.

rmann · Jan 15, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
For the cost of night vision goggles one could have a 3010 Expert Drum and a Jobo processor plus be ahead by being able to process color film too.

$300 will get you goggles, doubt all that Jobo equipment could be had for anywhere close to that. I use goggles to load holders and to develop by inspection. Color processing seems off topic - OP mentioned only B/W in first post. But, each of us will decide on what works best within our space, budget and skill level.

Sirius Glass · Jan 15, 2018

rmann said:
$300 will get you goggles, doubt all that Jobo equipment could be had for anywhere close to that. I use goggles to load holders and to develop by inspection. Color processing seems off topic - OP mentioned only B/W in first post. But, each of us will decide on what works best within our space, budget and sill level.

I bought two Jobo processors on APUG one for $130 and one for $150. I kept the second and sold the first for what I paid for it less the shipping. I bought a used tank, used bottles and new reels. All for under $300. The Expert Drum costs more because I bought a new one rather than wait for a new one. Now I do get film scratched from sliding negatives in trays.

Jeff Bradford · Jan 16, 2018

I have a Yankee tank that I use for 9x12 and 4x5 if I shoot enough to make it worth loading. If you can forgive the leaking, it does alright for a daylight method. Just keep it in the sink. It works a lot better in the dark with its top off, used like a Kodak rubber tank. Since nobody makes any nifty 5x7 gizmos, I still mostly do tray processing. I hear the makers of the SP-445 made a few 5x7 prototypes. I'd seriously negotiate for one of those. Also BW King makes a "newly redesigned" version of the Nikor tank for 5x7 (and 4x5). Maybe this year I'll surprise myself with one...

Bottom line: there are LOTS of 4x5 options. Try one. Try several. Hate them all and try some more until you like one. LOTS of options in 4x5.

Nodda Duma · Jan 16, 2018

When I started developing 4x5 film, I tried the yankee tank. It worked fine in and of itself, but I didn't like the amount of chemicals I had to mix up. So I bought the SP-445. It is perfect, and I've used it for B&W, E-6, and C-41.

For 4x5 plates I tray develop in the darkroom. Been doing that longer than I've been shooting 4x5 sheet film.

Bill Burk · Jan 16, 2018

It's trays for me. I use an infrared viewer, which is a versatile addition to the darkroom in any case.

Just wrapping up a marathon session of probably a hundred sheets. It takes me about 2 hours to do a run end to end. For example, I turned the water on at 9 one evening and wrung out the last sponge at 11.

In an effort to get done with all this work sooner I kept increasing the number of sheets per run, until the last runs I was stacking 15 sheets.

At this point my best description of the process is that it's like dealing a deck of cards, pulling from the bottom (emulsion up is my choice). Much of the sleight of hand activity is spent separating the bottom sheet from the stack, with the goal being... get as much developer as possible between that sheet and the rest of the deck. That is when that sheet gets its agitation, and it minimizes the chance of scratching. Slosh that sheet and deal it to the top of the deck, square it up and repeat.

I never take my hands off the film until it is hanging up to dry, I deal through the stop bath, fixer and 20 minutes in the wash with frequent changes of water (I use two trays for washing and switch them back and forth, one tray has the deck while the other is under the faucet). The last step is a photo-flo and filtered water tray, then hang up to dry.

Bill Burk · Jan 16, 2018

Nodda Duma said:
For 4x5 plates I tray develop in the darkroom.

I know you also have a specific routine... your choice is emulsion down if I recall correctly.

4x5 tank

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